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Huge improvements - Choline?
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BubbaFat posted:
After a year of therapy and observation our oldest son was diagnosed with high functioning autism when he was 6. 5 years later after countless hours with doctors and therapists in the last 2 months something has just clicked with him and everything is improving. He has made HUGE leaps academically, socially, emotionally and just in general "goodness" (of course he's a good kid - but the outbursts and negative behaviors have basically disappeared.

We went from a heavily managed IEP with daily communication with his teachers to monitor behaviors to just getting weekly "Everything was great!" emails in less than 60 days.

We can't figure it out.

The only thing that has changed which we have been able to identify is that he switched to Flintstone Sour Gummy vitamins. The main differences between these and the vitamin he was on before (regular Flintstones or Scooby Do) is that the gummies have extra Folic Acid (200 mcg) and Choline (38mg) and no copper.

Is it possible there is a correlation between the new vitamin and his improved ... well ... his improved life?

It's just day and night. We don't know why but we don't want it to stop.

Have others noticed anything similar?

Thanks!
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sula4 responded:
That is interesting--how is it going now? Still a change? The only thing I can offer is that I think a lot of autistic kids have tested with high levels of copper, so maybe eliminating did help him. As far as the folic acid goes, I know folinic acid is often used to treat our kids, but usually not in the form of folic acid. Choline....you got me! I guess keep doing what you're doing!
 
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TrudyGERD responded:
I'm not sure, but I just ordered Super Nu-Thera for Victoria. Since she's gotten braces I haven't had her on any vitamins (she was taking gummies which are a braces no-no). I've read many good things about SNT so I'm crossing my fingers. I already order enzymes from Kirkman and I've been looking for a vitamin so I figured why not.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
 
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sula4 responded:
Trudy~ What has your experience been with enzymes? I am reading a book on them now and am anxious to get started. What kind of changes have you seen? I would just like to be able to slip up once in a while w/ my son's diet restrictions...anything beyond that would be incredible. Thanks!
 
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Mklutzy responded:
I have had good experiences with Kirkman Labs in the past and feel it is a good company; however, my son did not like the taste and smell of the Super Nu-Thera vitamins. They are excellent as far as their content, but he would not take them because of his sensitivity to the pills themselves.
 
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TrudyGERD responded:
Luckily, Victoria can swallow pills. They make versions of SNT in capsules and caplets. I'm waiting for them to arrive so we'll see how they go.
 
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momma2abunchaboyz responded:
I just wanted to tell you that my son take super nu thera liquid in his juice and it hides it pretty well. He is also on the three lac probioitc and dmg from kirkman too.
 
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TammySeck responded:
Hi, I was wondering what type of therapy your son recieved? We have an 8 year old son who was diagnosed with mild autism spectrum disorder and has made progress at school but still seems to have some emotional issues and can be quite "inmature". We are a military family and I feel that we don't have the support that is needed, I would like to know more about the therapy so I can recommend something specific to the organization that deals with exceptional family members in the military. Thank you.
 
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OneSmartCookie responded:
Absolutely!!! We are getting phenominal results from changing vitamins. I am now going to seek the help of a DAN doctor. I really recommend trying to incorporate b6 w/magnesium. The results have been phenominal. I am absolutely blown away not only by my child's changes, but the other people who have tried it have really seen improvements. We are using Kirkman's b6/mag wafers. ARI has dosing information. You see the results within a week. BUT, you really need to try at least 2-3 mg per lb before you make a decision.

Look at DMAE as well. If the choline is helping, the DMAE may help as well.

OneSmartCookie
 
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dadscount responded:
Dear BubbaFat,

I see that your comments were posted three years ago and maybe you will never read this, however, others may benefit from this story I am about to share.

Last week my autistic son, now 14, who is around a 7 on the spectrum, became ill with a bad cold and flu. During his illness we ran out of vitamins and upon a trip to the drug store I ended up buying the Flinstone Gummies with Choline simply because the were on sale and the Gummies are the only type we can get him to take. He had been taking the new Flinstones with Choline for about 2 1/2 days.

Last night it appeared as though he was getting over the bug he had, but during our bedtime ritual I noticed that his eye contact with me, his communication, and overall conciousness was very elevated. This was strange, especially since he was not feeling well at all. As you know, autistic children will hit stagnation periods and then sometimes months or years later, something snaps and they make improvements. Was this the case here???

After putting my son to bed I had a conversation with my wife about what I had observed. Strangely enough I had told her that I thought his marked mental improvement might be linked to the Flinstones vitamins w/Choline. She rolled her eyes, but you know as a parent of a special needs child you become very keen to your child, even when the slightest of changes happen.

Early this morning I got up and started to reseach the possible links between autism, brain funtion, and Choline. Your comments on this site was the second google click I made. When I read your story about the Flinstones with Choline I almost fell out of my chair.

I am not a parent looking for a miracle cure,.. I am under no illusions about my son's condition. But I know what I know, and something has happened since he started taking the Choline.

I will keep everyone posted, but after doing more research on how this vitamin is so essential to healthy brain function, I have to think that there might be something to all this, especially after reading your story.

So in answer to your question above,... the answer is "YES", we have also noticed something similar.

We will note additional observations over the next several days and post again at that time. Thanks for sharing your story!
 
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aspieaunt replied to dadscount's response:
I just happened to stumble on this topic a couple of months ago. I went out and bought my 17-year-old nephew the chewables with choline. He's always had alot of behavioral problems but it was really getting bad, I was getting phone calls from the school about 2-3 times a week telling me he was being suspended or asking me to come pick him up and take him home because he was out of control, partly because the school had made alot of changes last year and then one of his friends killed himself and my nephew was having a lot of trouble handling it.

Anyway his last suspension had been on Dec 8th 2010. Shortly after that I finally managed to convince him to start taking the chewables with choline and folic acid. After that I stopped getting the phone calls and when I went in to talk to the staff two months later they said he still had little meltdowns here and there but overall his behavior had improved tremendously and they could see he was working hard to change his attitude.

That same day he got in trouble again and then again a couple of days later. I though 'oh here we go again" but I finally thought to ask him if he was still taking his vitamins, he said no he ran out of them at home. I explained that he didn't have to take the adult chewable his dad got him but could take the kids ones that i got him that are at my house, but the most important thing was that whatever he took had the choline in it. He had run out just before the day of the meeting. No problems the next couple of days.

Today he didn't have school but was going nuts over everything, saying his life was going to go nowhere, I asked him if he took his vitamin that day, he said no. I said, "Tell me honestly do you feel any calmer when you take the vitamins".
He said "Yes, I feel MUCH calmer" and he seems much more optimistic.

So it looks like so far we've finally found something that even he thinks works. Hope it continues.
 
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baile1234 replied to dadscount's response:
Dadscount, While i've been searching the web about every type of vitamin, and supplements for my 28 month old son, who is non verbal, with Autism Spectrum Disorder, and Sensory processing Disorder, I have found things on Fish oil, B12, B 6 ect. It is getting to be very overwhelming. However, I am very curious about the Flintstones Vitamins since I've now been hearing about the Choline and being a key ingredient in behavior and responsiveness. This seems like a very easy thing to try. I have been looking at the Flintstones website, but still overwhelmed with the options. Can you tell me exactly which vitamin you used? The gummy? The crunchy? Did it have Copper or no copper? How is your progress going? Thanks for sharing your story. I look forward to hearing more and more positive results!
 
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DadConcern replied to dadscount's response:
Has there been any long term effect of the choline?
 
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bobbie7 responded:
My daughter was diagnoised with sensory processing disorder. I learned about fish oil I couldn't find it for children but I also heard about choline and I also got the flinstone vitamins. Well I got the off brand but it has 38 mg of choline in it, Big changes in her. Not sure if this helped but your post helped me. Thank you very much.
 
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Hfa999 responded:

This is an old topic but I want to add my comments because there is so little information available on choline vs. autism and it made a huge difference for me and my 4 year old daughter (both with Asperger/high functioning autism high IQ). I am not young and I never took supplements except for MSM and taurine to reduce my acne and rhinitis from food intolerance (phenols...). I only started to investigate more into it after noticing that my daughter had the same lifelong problems I had. My plan was to try most of the supplements related to autism one by one and see what effects they had on me before considering giving it to my daughter (she eventually reacted to the supplements the same way I did). I started with high dose 1000ug methyl B12 and that made a huge difference... for a day or two...my constant rhinitis was gone, my vision became ultra clear (I guess I never had crisp vision before), my lifelong constant thirst/frequent urination disappeared and I felt very relaxed. I then tried to get back the improvements by adding some more supplements such as high dose B6/magnesium, folinic acid, NAC, MSM, taurine, Glucosamine sulphate (for the sulphate), Molybdenum, Zinc, Methionine, Carnitine, Biotine, B1,B2,B3,B5, other cofactors-etc.. They somewhat helped but it is only when I upped the B6 to 500mg twice a day that I felt almost the same as when I first took the B12 (except for the very relaxed part). But again the improvements eventually faded after a few weeks. I tried upping some other components. It helped in some instances but it became obvious that something else was blocking.

So, nothing seemed to work anymore and then I remembered that I had tried some choline bitartrate a while back because it was one ingredient (at low dosage) of the multivitamin/supplement sold by the Autism Nutrition Research Center (based of Prof. James Adams work) . At the time, I took 500mg and for the whole day, I felt almost as good as when I first took the B12, the main problem was that it made me feel very depressed (imbalance with my low serotonin?) so that I decided to use a much smaller amount, 125mg, that I never changed after that. Forward to the time nothing was working anymore and remembering that choline helped in the past, I decided to slowly increase choline dosage over the course of a couple of months. Every time things seems to stall, I increased choline and everything cleared-up (rhinitis, acne, thirst/urination, clear vision). I am now at 375mg twice a day and it doesn't seem to make me feel depressed anymore. In the latest twist, increasing choline didn't seem to help much anymore, but reducing the B6 to 500mg once a day solved the problem. It would seem that I was unknowingly taking too much B6 for the last few months to try to make-up for the missing choline. Now that I have enough Choline, the extra B6 seems to just cause problems (overload the sulfation pathway?).

In short, some of my (and my daughter's) problems seem to be related to a sulfation pathway deficiency that somehow was linked to missing choline. We were getting choline from nutrition (eggs, etc) but apparently not nearly enough. Choline by itself doesn't seem to be enough though, B12, B6/Magnesium/folinic acid, etc seems to be important too. Too bad there is not much information on choline/autism/sulfation available. As far as dosage, I started using what the "Autism Nutrition Research Center" and "the Autism/Asperger's Research Program at Arizona State University" propose and then adjusted on what I observed. The best rule I found for adjusting dosage between my daughter and me is to assume I am 120lbs and scale the dosage to her weight. For choline, I gave her more than that since children need proportionally more choline than adults.


As for my daughter, she is much happier, her speech is more "adult like", he tantrums are way way down and she seems less anxious around strangers, talks more.


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