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ASPERGER'S AND LYING
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SLF062548 posted:
I HAVE BEEN UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT ASPIE'S ARE NOT CAPABLE OF LYING - IS THIS TRUE
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tweekish1216 responded:
I don't believe that is true, my oldest son has been diagnosed with aspbergers and he lies all the time.
 
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TrudyGERD responded:
Boy do I wish. Yes, Aspies can lie. Mine does it as often as any typical 10 year old. Sometimes she can't keep a straight face but other times she's totally dead-pan and I can't read a thing off her face making it very difficult to tell.
 
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TuckerMomof3 responded:
Ha ha, lying is a human thing, not an aspie vs. non-aspie issue. My son is very manipulative and will lie when it's to his advantage. Who told you this?
 
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shyTeen responded:
I am 19 and I have asperger's and it took me a while before I learned to lie or fib in certain situations. Also it is one of my rules not to lie so it is extremely difficult and stressful for me to lie so I almost never do.
 
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shyTeen responded:
Whenever I was asked a question in which I could lie it didn't usually cross my mind to say something then the actual, true answer. No I am a bit more discerning, if that is the right word, about answering a question with the truth or deception depending on the situation. I usually only lie it is fibbing or a trivial matter but i have to get out of trouble only a couple times; and by a couple of times I really mean only 2-3 times. I get too much anxiety to lie because that is one of the rules that I live by and I find it extremely difficult to break any of my rules, many of which are from the Bible and my parents, others from life experience.
 
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zusia responded:
What is generally true is that people with Asperger's can be very blunt and over-truthful when expressing themselves. In other words they are more likely to tell you exactly how they feel about how you look, or how a meal tastes, rather than shroud their feelings with the civility of a little white lie. They don't pick up the skill of polite refrain naturally, which is one reason they are considered to have poor social behavior. Seems a contradiction, I know.

Because they're so *honest*, many people believe people with Asperger's can't lie, but most can certainly learn how to lie, even if they do it poorly. Those who are very rigid and rule-oriented may have a difficult time lying-- it may cause more anxiety than telling the truth-- but others with Asperger's can actually get very adept at lying, with practice.
 
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SLF062548 responded:
THIS WAS MY FIRST TIME POSTING TO WEBMD AND I WAS BIT HESITANT ABOUT POSTING THE FULL STORY BEHIND MY QUESTION - SINCE IT CONCERNS A FIVE YEAR OLD AND SEXUAL ABUSE I WILL ELABORATE

ON TUESDAY AUG 12TH MY DAUGHTER ASKED ME (AFTER THE GIRLS SECOND REFERENCE) IF SHE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THEM WANTING TO PLAY THE TOUCH AND FEEL GAME WHILE THEY WERE BOUNCING UP AND DOWN ON DADDY'S BED - I STARTED OFF BY SAYING THIS WAS NOT BEHAVOIR I HAD ENCOUNTERED WHEN THEY WERE HERE FOR THE DAY OR EVEN WHEN I GAVE THEM BATHS TOGETHER - I EXPLAINED THAT SEXUAL CURIOUSITY WAS NOT THAT UNUSUAL FOR HER FIVE YEAR OLD OR FOR THAT MATTER THE THREE YEAR OLD ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY BOTH ATTEND THE SAME SPECIAL ED. PRESCHOOL. I TOLD HER SHE SHOULD KEEP A CLOSE WATCH AND DISCUSS IT WITH THE FIVE YEAR OLD'S SOCIAL WORKER AT THE SCHOOL AND ASK FOR HIS ADVICE SINCE THEY MAY HAVE PICKED IT UP FROM SOME OF THE OTHER KIDS AT SCHOOL BECAUSE KIDS ARE CURIOUS AND SOME LIVE IN GROUP HOMES WITH OLDER CHILDREN - HE GAVE HER THE SAME ADVICE I DID - KEEP YOUR EYES AND EARS OPEN - IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN, IN A NON-THREATENING WAY GET INTO A CONVERSATION ASKING THE OBVIOUS WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN AND EVEN IF IT DIDN'T HAPPEN AGAIN THAT SHE NEEDED TO START TALKING TO THE GIRLS ABOUT INAPPRORIATE AND APPROPRIATE TOUCHING - YOU WANT TEACH THEM WHAT IS GOOD TOUCHING AND BAD TOUCHING WHILE AT THE SAME TIME NOT SHAMING THEM. ON FRIDAY AUG 15TH I GET A CALL FROM HER TO LET ME KNOW SHE WAS ON HER WAY TO THE HOSPITAL TO HAVE THE GIRLS EXAMINED. THE SUBJECT CAME UP AND SHE DID AS I AND THE SOCIAL WORKER SUGGESTED - AND THE ANSWER TO WHO PLAYS TOUCH AND FEEL WITH YOU? WAS DADDY. THE FIVE YEAR OLD (ASPERGER'S PDD-NOS) WAS CONSISTENT IN HER STORY ON FRIDAY WITH THE MOTHER, THE POLICE, AND THE HOSPITAL SOCIAL WORKER AND AGAIN ON SATURDAY IN A ROOM ALONE AT CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES - THE THREE YEAR WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND WAS GOING DOWN THE LINE ACCUSING EVERYONE INCLUDING THE POLICE OFFICER WHO WAS QUESTIONING HER SO HER TESTIMONY WAS DISCOUNTED. THE HOSPITAL FOUND THAT THERE WAS EXTENSIVE VAGINAL IRRITATION AND BRUISING ON THE FIVE YEAR OLD AND TO A LESSER DEGREE SOME ANAL AND VAGINAL IRRIATATION ON THE THREE YEAR OLD.

FIRST SHE WAS TOLD THE POLICE WOULD BE ARRESTING THE FATHER AT WORK ON FRIDAY - THEN THE POLICE SAID THEY WOULD BE ARRESTING HIM AT THE HOME AFTER THE HOSPITAL DID THE EXAMINATION THAT EVENING - THEN THE POLICE TOLD HER HE WOULD BE ARRESTED THE NEXT MORNING BUT THAT THEY TOLD HIM HE HAD TO VACATE THE HOUSE AND NOT COME BACK UNTIL IT WAS ALL RESOLVED - THEN THEY TOLD HER HE WOULD BE ARRESTED MONDAY WHEN THEY GOT THE FULL HOSPITAL REPORT - BOTTOM LINE IS HE HAS STILL NOT BEEN ARRESTED BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THEM THE HOSPITAL DID NOT CONCLUSIVELY SAY WHAT THE DEFINITE CAUSE OF THE IRRITATION AND BRUISING WAS AND THEY COULDN'T TAKE THE TESTIMONY OF A FIVE YEAR OLD.

WHAT REALLY CONFUSES ME IS THAT THEY CHECKED HIS COMPUTER AND FOUND ON HIS BROWSING HISTORY WHERE HE HAD BROWSED DOZENS UPON DOZENS CHILD PORN SITES INCLUDING ONE ENTITLED "DADDY TEACHES DAUGHTER TO F..K" BUT DID NOT TAKE THE COMPUTER AWAY FOR EVIDENCE AND THEY NEVER SAID TO THE FIVE YEAR OLD CAN YOU SHOW ME WHERE YOU PLAY THE TOUCH AND FEEL GAME - AFTER THEY WERE TOLD BY THE MOTHER THAT THE ONLY TIME THE GAME COMES UP IS WHEN THEY ARE IN DADDY'S BEDROOM BOUNCING ON HIS BED.

OK - SO FINALLY MY QUESTION

THE FIVE YEAR OLD IS A TEXTBOOK ASPIE - SHE CAN'T AND HAS NEVER LIED - SHE JUST SIMPLY CAN 'T! - WHY IS YOUR SISTER CRYING? - I HIT HER....WHO BROKE THAT? - I DID - TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE ASPIES CAN'T LIE - AT LEAST SHE CAN'T - AS BRIGHT AS SHE IS SHE DOES NOT HAVE THEORY OF MIND OR COGNITIVE ABILITY - I UNDERSTAND LYING CAN BE LEARNED AS ASPIES DEVELOP BUT WE ARE TALKING A 5 YEAR OLD WITH NO PAST EXPERIENCE OR ABILITY IN LYING

IS IT AT ALL POSSIBLE THAT AN ASPIE COULD BE COACHED INTO TELLING SUCH A LIE? AND SHOULDN'T THE POLICE BE TAKING THIS CHILD'S TESTIMONY SERIOUSLY?
 
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SLF062548 responded:
THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT - I POSTED ADDITIONAL INFORMATION REGARDING MY FIRST QUESTION THIS MORNING - I AM TALKING ABOUT A FIVE YEAR OLD WHO IS A TEXTBOOK ASPIE WHO HAS NEVER SHOWN THE ABILITY TO LIE TO DATE - FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD FROM OTHER PEOPLE WITH ASPERGER'S THEY ALSO SAY THAT THEY WERE MUCH OLDER WHEN THEY ATTEMPTED LYING AND MOST SAY THEY ARE NOT VERY SUCCESSFUL AT IT EVEN AS ADULTS - THANKS AGAIN
 
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TuckerMomof3 responded:
My 5 yr. old will lie, not very well, but will lie to get out of being in trouble. I haven't noticed him lie about anything else, but I don't think he's able at 5 to "invent" a lie just for story's sake. But because his behavior at times is out of control he will lie to Mommy and Daddy when we are apparently/ oviously upset with him. We have to pull the truth out of him and remind him that the truth is the way to go.
 
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TrudyGERD responded:
OK, this is a VERY different type of situation from lying. I honestly don't believe that a 5 year old Aspie could be coached into telling a story about this kind of abuse. There's even physical evidence of abuse. I can't imagine somebody then not believing her after this has happened to her. While an Aspie may have a different perspective on what happened, I would bet that she's telling you the story as she believes it. I don't see a 5 year old Aspie being capable of maintaining an elaborate fabrication that she doesn't fully believe herself. I would think that the physical evidence alone is proof of abuse and that the testimony, especially since hers is unwavering, would be enough to arrest. The only problem I might see is that I bet if somebody presented her with a semi-logical alternative explaination for her father's behavior that she would accept that. She's most likely extremely trusting and easily manipulated. Her perception of the events could be easily altered. She wouldn't lie, but what she believes to be true could be changed by what others tell her.

My Aspie (heck even my neuro-typical child) wasn't capable of any kind of real lying at 5 years old. At 5, lying was things like denying taking a cookie or making a mess. My Aspie typically didn't even do this. It's not that she wasn't capable; it just never occured to her to be anything but completely honest. My NT child at 5 would try these little types of lies but she was very obvious and would quickly tell the truth when pressed.
 
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missesaga responded:
my husband has aspergers and even as an adult he lies without thinking it's wrong, however at a young age i'm not sure kids can lie or don't do it willingly.
 
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meacara responded:
I must say it depends on the values of the Aspie. Quite frankly if you don't believe lying in all instances is wrong, you're going to lie because it's not breaking your rules. I recently told a lie about a software license (where i got my copy of office 3+ years ago) and it's been bothering me, but I don't let it show. This is the total exception for me and the only reason why I can live with it is that I believe microsoft is evil and I've probably spent the equivalent of office in useless/bad software. I must say though, for major events of similar magnitude to the abuse you describe, my versions of things also never waver, there is physical evidence to back up her story, etc., which makes a conclusion of her lying extremely suspect. She may have the ability to lie in some situations but the evidence fits her story more than her lying, and I doubt she can come up with such an elaborate story at that age to lie about.
 
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whyhopecom responded:
Sometimes false information is not a lie, if a person believes it due to being told, bad memory, or out of confusion, etc.

With my Aspergers I never lie with intent unless it is legally and morally justified in order to protect someone, but even then it is hard for me to do. I believe it is because the world is hard enough for me without the extra effort it would take to remember the lies. Keeping secrets is something I am also poor at doing.

What is ironic is that I was a trusted member of U.S. military intelligence doing a job of repairing top secret electronics equipment. The army wanted me for my job skills which were exceptional. My social skills basically are the reason I had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder in the army and finally kicked out for not fitting in.

Funny how a person who my army electronic school instructors said was the most brilliant in 10 years was not able to offer skills to the army because the army could not train me to act like a thug. Today I am an inventor, for example the parabolic discone antenna. I am making my own way in the world because nothing else seems to work.

PS: due to problems with VIPs and legal authority who protect VIPs, I have learned to tape record everything in public situation where I could be accused of lying or other behavior. In Ohio it appears to be legal to record everything in person as long as it is not used to break the law, though you would need to verify with a lawyer if you consider doing it yourself or suggesting it. Even then you must know the right people to deal with any evidence or it is worthless.
 
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Suemac3000 replied to whyhopecom's response:
In my experience, Aspies lying depends on their point of view. I have had my Aspie son take on another "persona" that was capable of lying, so when in character he could as well.

I have also noticed that there are times where he perceives that things have happened or that he has said or heard things that he did not remember accurrately, but to him his personal interpretation is correct.

But I have also noted that on the rare times he does lie, he does so poorly, and if I ask questions I can trip him up. However, if his Father just glares at him and his brother and asks for the truth, he will confess.

I am an Aspie myself, and I know that lying is difficult. Not because I can't, but because it is too hard to keep my world in place if I put false data points in it. Besides, I like being open and honest with people. It is difficult enough to deal with relationships already without having to remember two sets of stories. But if my point of view changes...

I remember an embarrassing story from elementary school. I often hear things differently from the way people say them. I came home from school one day and told my mother that a teacher had said something, and my mother went ballistic. I was so afraid of my mother that I stuck to my story even when in the principal's office with her and the teacher. The poor teacher insisted that she did not say what I had mistakenly heard, but I was soooo afraid of my mother I did not change my story. I feel guilty decades later. Did I lie? I could not remember what the teacher actually said, so I had to stick to what I thought I remembered even though I could see that I must have mis-interpreted, because when I heard it I was actually proud, but the way my Mom reacted she was mad.


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