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    Seriously Mentally Ill/Dangerous People?
    bpcookie posted:
    I was reading one of those web sites that talk about gun control. I came across something that pisses me off.

    "Protecting the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans goes hand-in-hand with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, drug abusers, the seriously mentally ill and other dangerous people."

    Other DANGEROUS ppl? So the seriously mentally ill are now considered DANGEROUS? Really? I'm not talking about those who have been proven to have violent tendencies but to put the seriously mentally ill in a category of DANGEROUS PEOPLE is wrong in my opinion.

    Definition of seriously mentally ill:

    The seriously mentally ill are defined as persons who, as the result of a mental disorder, exhibitemotional, cognitive, or behavioral functioning which is so impaired as to interfere substantiallywith their capacity to remain in the community without supportive treatment or services of along-term or indefinite duration. In these persons, mental disability is severe and persistentresulting in a long term limitation in their functional capacities for primary activities of dailyliving such as interpersonal relationships, self-care, homemaking, employment, and recreation.Conditions such as mental retardation or substance abuse may cause similar problems orlimitations, and are not to be included in this definition unless, in addition to one or more ofthese disorders, the person has a severe and persistent mental disorder

    I do not see the word DANGEROUS in the definition. Mind you, I am aware that some mentally ill are dangerous but to put all of them into one category is plain wrong.
    We will be friends until we are old and senile,.........then we will be new friends!!
    ddnos responded:
    Cookie, the truth of the matter is, that only 4% of the perpetrators of gun violence are mentally ill - so that leaves 96% of NON mentally ill that are "dangerous"!!!
    Forgiveness is letting go of the hope that the past could have been any different --Unknown
    bpcookie replied to ddnos's response:
    We will be friends until we are old and senile,.........then we will be new friends!!
    ddnos replied to bpcookie's response:
    and amen!!
    Forgiveness is letting go of the hope that the past could have been any different --Unknown
    bpcookie replied to ddnos's response:
    You said it!
    We will be friends until we are old and senile,.........then we will be new friends!!
    ddnos replied to bpcookie's response:
    Forgiveness is letting go of the hope that the past could have been any different --Unknown
    melly2210 responded:
    As I sat my big butt in the lobby of the PCP's office waiting for the diabetic class earlier today, they were discussing that 1 in 5 people are considered "mentally ill." I think this is the "BIG" issue here. No one really understands what the definition of what mentally ill includes. The scope is tremendous. And the recent shootings and such really sensationalize the mental illness capacities of those who perpetrated the crimes.

    To make matters worse, they were also saying that state mental health funding has been cut across the boards. From mental health programs (crisis centers, outpatient free programs, etc) to even prison programs. They also said that about 20% of Floridian inmates suffered from some sort of mental illness and they simply do not have the resources to rehabilitate these inmates, nor do they have the space. Basically, they are releasing habitually violent criminals with known mental illnesses with no treatment or follow up out into the mainstream public. As for the generalized population? The mentally ill are being met with so much stigma that it's impacted unemployment rates. Things like cognitive testing (done by the much larger companies) and personality testing are indicators to our illnesses rather than the results of our medications in most cases. This, in turn, creates a larger burden on the public assistance. So a cycle is created.

    That being said, I really don't see a problem with limiting weapon purchases to background checks in all states with an imposed waiting period for ANY purchase. Background checks aren't looking for health records, they're looking for felons who are already forbidden to have these weapons anyway. I also don't feel that locking down military style weaponry to the public is a bad idea either. Other than a trophy, what else can these weapons be used for except massive damage? That is there purpose to begin with - inflict as much damage as possible in the shortest period of time.

    TRIGGER TRIGGER Honestly, I think there are already too many illegal weapons out there with people who should never have them to stop these mass shootings we've been seeing more and more. They're already out there. The plans are in the works. I think being shot in a movie theater, for instance, are as great as being in a car accident anymore. We had a student living in a dorm in Central Florida who not only built homemade bombs in front of his roommate and created a plan including a diversion to draw out a crowd to prey upon, but also had several assault, automatic weapons to utilize with him IN the dorm. The only thing that prevented this was that he pointed the gun at his roommate before departing on his plan. Society has become insane as a whole. Common sense no longer prevails. Anyone who commits these type of crimes ARE mentally ill. Why else would they do these things? It's like suicide. You just don't slice open your arm. You think about doing it. You plan it. And then you try, if not succeed. It isn't some random accident. It's a calculated, thought out process. Not a crime of passion. And in these cases, I think "dangerous" does come into play. The big question is: Given the hurdles like the ones I've mentioned, how do we single these people out to prevent these kinds of things from happening?

    Hope is that thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops... at all. ~Emily Dickinson
    bpcookie replied to melly2210's response:
    yup, the shootings have made it rough on us Bipolars. Now ppl look at us like we are dangerous or we may freak out at any moment. It took Bipolars so very long to educate the public and now this comes along and we are back to square one again, kinda.

    Ya know, the article that I listed is about gun control and I didn't even read the entire article because right when I saw that they considered seriously mentally ill ppl dangerous, I got instantly pissed off. "whew, calm yourself Cookie or you will go off on a Government tangent and wind up on the list of seriously mentally ill ppl". But anyways, the article was read fully by my husband and he told me that its BS. Its actually a way for the Government to know exactly who owns a gun and all they have to do is come knocking on your door to take your guns. Who determines who is dangerous and who isn't? The Government decides. The more control the Government has over us, the happier they are. Ok, I did go off on a Government tangent after all. lol.

    There are already back ground checks done when you buy a gun. uuuummmm It still did not keep the guns out of the hands of criminals. So making longer back ground checks is useless. What can you find out in two days that you couldn't find out in the 10 mins that it takes to do a back ground check now? The State/Government/police put a red flag on your record if you commit a crime that warrants a re flag. So the red flag pops up immediately when they do a back ground checks now.

    (trigger) Military weapons are one thing but they want to limit how many bullets a magazine can hold. This is a problem because, for instance, a 9 mil. holds 17 rounds. You HAVE to pull the trigger 17 times for it to fire. Its not a hold-the-trigger-down-and-it-fires-all-bullets gun. If a few ppl break into your house, how many bullets do you wish you had? You would want all 17. In a case like that, there would be a panic, many bullets would miss its target, especially in the dark. Also, limiting the rounds that a magazine holds won't help a thing. You can carry multiple magazines. You fire all your bullets, push a button, magazine falls to the ground and you slap another one in. This takes only seconds to do.

    I don not own a gun but I know a lot about them because many years ago before I was diagnosed, I collected guns. When I divorced the X took them all and sold them all. *shrug*. So thats why I know a lot about them.

    Mass shootings have increased but so has the birth rates. What I'm trying to say is, for example, 100 yrs ago there weren't as many car accidents, there weren't as many cars, there weren't as many ppl. Also, the Press are reporting more shootings because that is what the public wants to hear. So now you hear more about shootings than you did before.

    Ok, I'm getting off my box.......for now.
    We will be friends until we are old and senile,.........then we will be new friends!!
    jselleck responded:
    Heck, this sounds like me most of the time.....Maybe I'm dangerous???? Nah, only if there's a bag of Doritos in the house or banana nut bread or muffins. lol.

    Melly you bring up several good points. However I still have to agree with my husband. Universal gun licenses. Carry a license with you everywhere just like your driver's license detailing what type of gun you can have, why type of ammo, everything. That way whenever you go to purchase a new weapon all you have to do is show your license. And it has to be renewed every four years. Would save the government thousands. But they'll never think of it.

    Have a good day my friends.

    Jess .
    bpcookie replied to jselleck's response:
    AHA!!! J, I like the idea. A weapons license. Something just popped into my head. Its a funny commercial I just saw. There are these guys who are driving a convertible and the weather is cold, so they are wearing ski masks. One guy goes into a store, buys a bunch of munchies, puts the stuff on the counter and the guy behind the counter says "I don't want any trouble". The guy with the ski mask looks a bit confused and says "I don't want any trouble either". lol. Its a great commercial. Here is the commercial on Youtube.
    We will be friends until we are old and senile,.........then we will be new friends!!
    jselleck replied to bpcookie's response:
    Yea, I love that VW commercial also!!! Did you know, that in certain parts of the country it is "highly encouraged" to not wear ski masks??? Even when it's cold. I've subbed at several schools that outright wouldn't allow their students to wear them. Sigh... What is this world coming to??? Still think the commercial is funny.

    ibex7 responded:
    The Network New Media choose photographs of violent attackers to broadcast while they describe mental illness to the public. These pics always show deep set demonic eyes peering from emotionless faces that are in themselves prejudicial. I blame the sensationalistic media for shaping public opinion instead of accurately reporting the news.
    This garbage reporting angers many of us, especially this Ol' Goat.
    Sometimes you don't mean to say what you mean to say you mean.
    jselleck replied to ibex7's response:
    Totally agree with ya Goat!!! 15 years ago when I first started studying Journalism I thought it was the most wonderful totally awesome profession in the world. After all, if you don't tell / print the truth, you get sued right??? WRONG!!!! Now a day you can do practically what ever you want, as long as there is just the slightest morsel of truth to it. My junior year of hs my father was forced to resign his long held janitor position at the local middle school due to a misunderstanding between him and the principle. (My dad used to bring baseball cards to school to trade during lunch with the kids and the night before the incident in question he was at a local card shop and some questionable playboy cards that he DID NOT PURCHASE got mixed into his cards. Well the kids got a hold of them, and of course they made a big deal of it, being many 12-14 year old kids. The principle found out, sent dad home, and my sister and I found out about it on the bus home. ) To make a long story short, both the local paper and the Louisville one, tried to turn it into a story of him distributing porn to minors. Which is NOT what happened at all. So even the most innocent thing such as trading baseball cards can be turned into the most heinous act. I remember questioning Mrs. G, my teacher, if this is the field I still wanted to go into after the story came out. Her advice to me was along the lines of you've seen what journalism can do in the wrong hands, now make it do right in your hands. And had I not lost a whole year due to Franklin's dumb rules, I probably would have gone to work for a paper after college. But since I did lose a year, I didn't. And I strongly believe that were I to attempt to do so now, I'd be lucky to last four weeks. I'm too opinionated, and I get mad too easily. However I can and do still dream/wish/hope that someone would stand up to the money bags behind the news and say "This is wrong!! We're painting the mentally ill with a wide brush that doesn't apply to all of them." I can dream, can't I?????? zzzzzzzzzzz
    melly2210 replied to bpcookie's response:
    Not ALL states require background checks for gun purchases. Here in FL if you are buying from a store or pawn shop, it goes through that whole process. BUT if you buy at a show? Nothing checked. Get whatever you want and walk away. Apparently, FL isn't the only state with that problem. The 2 day waiting period is a cool down period just to prevent those so-called passion crimes like I caught my spouse cheating and shot them kind of thing. It's never going to stop the calculated shootings, I agree 100% on that.

    As for the govt taking away rights, we gave up pretty much all of them when we instituted the Patriot Act in a mass panic over 9/11. Not to take anything away from that day, but there's been many other events that were homegrown that were overlooked until someone enters our country. IF it had been tried to be passed say after the Oklahoma bombing, it would have fallen flat as a pancake. So I think this BIG push is about the recent, what I would also call epidemic, shootings. I say epidemic because we sensationalize it. The focus goes on the shooter. His mental health. How big his arsenal was. How long he planned. Etc. If we stopped giving focus to these people and just reported the event, talked to a few survivors for a few minutes just like an everyday plain old shooting on the street, then I think the incidences would drop. Once an idea is out there, people mimic for their 10 seconds of fame. For a lot of mentally ill, it's about feeling like people remember and know them. Comes from the severe depression that we all get that says we don't matter anymore. Not justifying it, but it is part of the lack of understanding of mental illness.

    I'm not completely anti-gun. I think the amount of ammo a person buys is a high indicator more so than who has a weapon. That guy who shot all those people in the movie theater? He ordered thousands of rounds online in 2 or 3 orders. Where was the red flag for that? And I THINK the young man's mother did something similar to placate the boy too.

    What it's all coming down to, I think, is that we're realizing people kill people not guns killing people. There's a panic about responsible use of these weapons. It's nothing new. It's just gaining more media attention and thus political attention.

    Hope is that thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops... at all. ~Emily Dickinson
    melly2210 replied to jselleck's response:
    I love that VW commercial too. Great example of stereotypes. And typically, that isn't true anyways. It's a movie ploy.

    As for journalism? Well, I hate citing media/fictional things, but have any of you seen "How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days?" Excellent example. Main character has a Masters in Journalism and the beauty mag she works for limits her to mundane, "how to's." She's completely capable of writing more serious articles but isn't allowed because it's a "beauty" magazine as if its readers might not appreciate an article in it outside of the norm.

    I don't what we can do about this stigma thing. It's everywhere. I'm tired of Law and Order and Criminal Minds and so many other criminal shows, both fiction and non-fiction, where the criminals responsible are all mentally ill in some sort of way. Then there is the media of all kinds.

    And it seems to me that organizations like NAMI whose sole seeming purpose is to work against social stigma isn't even touching on these things but for 3 or 5 minutes and they're dismissed. It's ridiculous. Tons of individuals are going to have to band together, not just for suicide prevention, but to show the world that a mental illness of any kind doesn't mean you aren't functional or homicidal. But try to organize that with the number of people who hide away in shame afraid of that stigma.

    Hope is that thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops... at all. ~Emily Dickinson

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