Lipitor has NOT been shown to prevent Heart Attacks
avatar
Sir_Porangi posted:
This link is to the wonderful Weston A price foundation.

Scroll down about 3/4 of the page you will seea copy their own advert that says

"Lipitor has not been shown to Prevent heart Disease or heart Attacks"

Did your doctor tell you to take statins it to prevent a heart attack?

http://www.westonaprice.org/modern-diseases/cardiovascular-disease/581-dangers-of-statin-drugs


Lipitor has a NNH (number needed to harm) factor of ???
Reply
FirstPrevious12NextLast
 
avatar
toneman84084 responded:
All the anticipation and that's what you come up with, an ad from the year Lipitor was introduced?

Like I said, now show me where Pfizer has claimed Lipitor prevents heart attacks. You have an ad (very old ad) that says they don't do what they never said they did.

Again, if the rest of that ad was not so blurry and was maginifed like the first part it would read;

LIPITOR (atorvastatin calcium) is a prescription medicine that is used along with a low-fat diet. It lowers the LDL ("bad") cholesterol and triglycerides in your blood. It can raise your HDL ("good") cholesterol as well. LIPITOR can lower the risk for heart attack, stroke, certain types of heart surgery, and chest pain in patients who have heart disease or risk factors for heart disease such as age, smoking, high blood pressure, low HDL, or family history of early heart disease.

No where do they claim to prevent heart attacks, they only reduce the risk of heart attacks. You need to do better than that.
 
avatar
toneman84084 responded:
OK caught my breath and got back on my chair. Dude, I don't know why you seem so bent on bring Lipitor down, but you need to move on. Your opinions have been duly noted and you don't need to keep starting post after post. Again, this is not a game, there is no winning or losing and no matter how many threads you start about Pfizer, guess what? They will still be out there tomorrow, they will still be making Lipitor, doctors will still be prescribing it and patients will still be benefiting from it. Unfortunately there will be some who will suffer side effects, just as some do on penicillin. Starting thread after thread won't change any of that, you should tell your story, your past experiences and move on. This obsession is going to cause a stroke if you keep it up.
 
avatar
Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
OK caught my breath and got back on my chair. Dude, I don't know why you seem so bent on bring Lipitor down


Not just Lipitor ALL statins. the public perceive them to be safe and effective - they are neither. They are a genocidal fraud


If a non teriarty layman can find this what does that say about the experts.


I have only been producing Pstfifers own adverts.


Shortly I will produce sound evidence where you may have other aspects of this statin fraud wrong.


Ronald Regan and Bill say "Trust but Verify"


Both myself and the US Justice Dept have verified that Pstzfers "upon verification are not to be trusted."


I used to be a choir boy like yourself and I sincerely hope you do not suffer from this fraud the way I, my family and our friends have.


Please knock my spelling, knock my maths but please don't knock my accounts of my medical history and the medical clowns I have suffered along the way
 
avatar
toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
Not just Lipitor ALL statins. the public perceive them to be safe and effective - they are neither. They are a genocidal fraud

That is really a matter of perspective now isn't it. I've been on them for years as have many of my family members and friends, we have all benefited and none have had side effects.

You are not in a position where you have the knowledge significant enough t make this statement to members of the community. Give your opinion and let it go at that. As you have put it, you are a layman nothing more. Your opinion is valid and should be shared, but you do not have the right to tell all statin users as a whole they are part of a fraud.

Please knock my spelling, knock my maths but please don't knock my accounts of my medical history and the medical clowns I have suffered along the way

Not doubting you issues, but in the same way, don't knock my progress and intelligence by repeatedly telling me I am too stupid to know what I'm doing.

I used to be a choir boy like yourself and I sincerely hope you do not suffer from this fraud the way I, my family and our friends have.

I am not a choirboy for anything, as I have asked you to do, I just give my opinion. That's all any of us can do.

I am done with these discussions as I feel they are reckless and divisive to the community whihc is what I told WebMd management last night. I will do as I always have, state my opinion and move on. I will dispute incorrect information and move on. You may continue to beat a dead horse.
 
avatar
toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
You and your friends have no way of knowing if statin therapy is helping you at all. It may be lowering your cholesterol that is all science can conclusively tell you.

How do you know it is not helping me? Do you know my medical history? Do you know my numbers, my test results or my stats?

I can also make a case that you don't know that your issues were caused by statins either.

I think they're doing great! FYI, Pfizer has nothing to do with my statins, don't know why you keep associating them with me.
 
avatar
Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
We do know that statin therapy lowers cholesterol.

We do know that artificially raising HDL does not help.

We do know that statin manufacturers have stated that statin therapy does not prevent heart attacks.

We do know statin therapy has caused death.

I have no opinion of an advanced knowledge person taking statin therapy.

What I strongly object to is that many of us trusting lay people have been freightened into taking a therapy that has very questionable results with the potential of horrific side effects.
 
avatar
toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
We do know that statin manufacturers have stated that statin therapy does not prevent heart attacks.

Again, no one ever said they do prevent heart attacks, that is the plain and simple fact. They all say the help reduce the risk of heart attack. It does not matter how many times you say this, it does not make your statement true.

This is what they say;

LIPITOR can lower the risk for heart
attack, stroke, certain types of heart
surgery, and chest pain in patients who
have heart disease or risk factors for heart
disease.

No where in there do they claim to prevent heart attacks. If you have high blood pressure and high cholesterol and take Lipitor for the cholesterol and do nothing about your BP, you still are at risk for heart attack. That's not on Lipitor and since they can not control all YOUR actions they can't say taking Lipitor will prevent heart attacks. It really is just that simple with no hidden agendas.

We do know statin therapy has caused death.

As do all drugs in very rare circumstances. The most dangerous side effect of statin use is rhabdomyolysis which has a documented and proven incidence rate of .1% of statin users. Death from statins is more rare than that. More people die from anaphylactic shock from penicillin than all causes from statins. It is estimated that up to 15% of the population is vulnerable to adverse effects of penicillin and 1.4% will die. that's 1,500 deaths per year on average. The thing is, the last time I had penicillin my doctor warned me about this possibility as well and I asked a few questions and made a decision, that's how it works.

What I strongly object to is that many of us trusting lay people have been freightened into taking a therapy that has very questionable results with the potential of horrific side effects

You can prevent this by being proactive and not just a sheep in the flock. Why would you take any medication without asking questions like where, why and how? Why would you not look yourself for answers? Did you read the patient information leaflet? Here is what it says in bold print;

LIPITOR can cause serious side
effects. These side effects have
happened only to a small number of
people. Your doctor can monitor you
for them. These side effects usually
go away if your dose is lowered or
LIPITOR is stopped.

LIPITOR canMuscle problems.
cause serious muscle problems
that can lead to kidney problems,
including kidney failure. You have
a higher chance for muscle
problems if you are taking certain
other medicines with LIPITOR.

LIPITOR canLiver Problems;
cause liver problems. Your doctor
may do blood tests to check your
liver before you start taking
LIPITOR, and while you take it.

How can you read that and not ask questions? Did you follow the first instruction on the page;

Read the Patient Information that
comes with LIPITOR before you start
taking it and each time you get a refill.
There may be new information. This
leaflet does not take the place of
talking with your doctor about your
condition or treatment.
If you have any questions about
LIPITOR, ask your doctor or
pharmacist.

Here's a copy for you;

http://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=588

My point through all of this is that we should all be proactive with our health and that means reading the patient information, doing as directed and discussing the information with your doctor, there is no replacement for personal interaction and those that do not may suffer unfortunate consequences.
 
avatar
Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
I don't dispute how any of your statistics are arrived at.

Take one issue that you and I have earlier agreed on that is there is no mortality benifet for the elderly in taking statin therapy.

In my community and I suspect around the globe there are many old folk in rest homes taking statin therapy.

To me that is purely evil.
 
avatar
toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
Take one issue that you and I have earlier agreed on that is there is no mortality benifet for the elderly in taking statin therapy.

That's not entirely what I said. I said there was no real benefit in low risk elderly patients. I know of several studies that show an increased benefit for high risk patients with statin therapy. The SAGE study proved this.

From the AHA;

The Study Assessing Goals in the Elderly (SAGE) demonstrates that older men and women with coronary artery disease benefit from intensive statin therapy.

Here's the link so you can read it for yourself;

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/115/6/700

Nothing criminal that I can see. My parents are in their 80's both had bypasses in their late 70's and both are on statins and I'm fine with it. They are both high risk patients.

 
avatar
Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
Take another issue we have both agreed on that is

we have both seen elderly patients stop their prescription medicine (not just statins) to enjoy a better quality of life
 
avatar
toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
we have both seen elderly patients stop their prescription medicine (not just statins) to enjoy a better quality of life

Yes I've seen it. I've also seen individuals that could not live without their meds. Goes both ways.
 
avatar
billh99 replied to toneman84084's response:
I take great issue with that study. It used eldery, people 65-85.
I am 67 and I ain't eldery yet.

Elderly is 5-10 years older than I am at the time <G>.
 
avatar
toneman84084 replied to billh99's response:
Sorry, Bill:)