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    Decline in Heart Disease with McDonalds History Overlay
    bobby75703 posted:
    bobby75703 responded:
    Note the steady decline despite how many Restaurants, or which oil is being used in America's fastest growing chain.
    bobby75703 replied to bobby75703's response:
    Fast Food is NOT healthy. Its bad for us. Yet something caused heart disease to decline during a tremendous growth period for the fast food industry.

    So what caused the decline?

    It was during this period both smoking and emissions went into decline. Both of which directly impact vascular health.
    iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
    New here and been watching the posts as I spend most of my time elsewhere. There is some good information and people here but some of this seems to be a case of way over thinking the problem.

    It really is pretty simple, fast foods are bad for you, no real revelation here and cholesterol can cause heart disease. Charts and graphs are nice along with all the time lines and state by state comps, but still way deeper dive than necessary. ff you believe in the medical application of statins great. If you don't that's good as well. That's why we're all different.

    Anyways, I'm new and my cholesterol is 154, LDL 64 and HDL 39. I've been on Simvastatin for years they work for me. Looking forward to joining in.

    bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
    There is no question fast foods are bad for our health. This is clearly understood.

    What isn't understood yet is the underlying mechanism behind the cause of Cardiovascular disease. This has yet to be identified.

    40 years ago it was thought consumption of saturated fats and high serum cholesterol levels were responsible. However this hypothesis has been fading as half the heart attacks happen to people with low cholesterol. Meanwhile populations who consume higher saturated fat diets don't always have higher rates of heart disease.

    The point of the graph above is to point out despite America's increased consumption of fast food, death rates from heart disease declined. A fact few people are aware.
    iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
    Sorry, just seems like a little overkill to me. This is not rocket science, we all know that heart disease is on the decline, but that's due to better treatment. People haven't changed all that much, the vises we had as a society 30 years ago are no different today. Some people have opted for a healthy lifestyle, maybe more than before but I think it's more of a shift in medical advances that have changed and in a way off set the increase in poor diet. I feel as though the one thing all the little graphs don't really account for is a baseline which I feel is the people's behavior and it may be a reach to associate a link to a change in heart disease as the two may not be relational.

    In my thinking, that's what hasn't changed and the medical profession has advanced as we all know. Poor diet and lifestyle stays the same and medical treatment advance results in a decline in heart disease. Really kind of simple but the charts are entertaining I guess.

    bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
    The charts are from the National Institute of Health. The Red ink is my notations.

    100% agree we have better medical technology. No question about it. There were also other major improvements that took place after 1970 that may have contributed to the decline.

    Our diets are more than just what we eat. Yes, what we eat is important, but what we inhale constitutes the Lion's share of our daily intake into our arteries.

    There is a growing body of evidence that small air pollution particulate worsen cardiovascular disease and contribute to heart attacks and strokes. Its not the only risk factor, but study after study is showing a clear association.

    It was post 1970 that both smoking and emissions declined in the US. Smoking, auto emissions, and factory emissions are all by-products of combustion. All the same with slight variances, but still toxic by-products of combustion.

    Conversely, we can explore parts of the world where emissions are on the increase, and so is the death rate from heart disease.

    Association doesn't prove causation. If that were true then pine trees would cause heart disease. But the study evidence of particulate pollution is compelling to say the least.
    iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
    I understand what you're saying, but just as association does not prove causation, causation is not linked merely to association. I am a Research Associate by trade and have spent my career analyzing data. First off, this is not a chart, just a timeline. A chart has at least an X and Y axis and shows the relationship between objects. This timeline could easily be changed to use advances in medicine as landmarks and it would also show the same decline in heart disease, proves nothing just backs up a personal opinion.

    Again, this is not complicated. Poor diet would be the baseline and medical advances would be the variable and that is how association is proved. What you are provide is a possible causation without evidence.

    This all more data than anyone needs for the purpose of this forum. Eating badly increases your risk of heart disease. The rest is personal belief.

    I looked at a few more of your posts, one said you were leaving. What was that about?
    bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
    I stopped by to visit the site. Didn't expect to post, but saw your response and posted. Oh well.

    The chart does contain an X and Y axis.

    Any concern about the validity of the timeline chart above would need to be directed to the National Institutes of Health.
    Its their timeline chart. Not mine.

    Any concern over the validity of McDonalds history would have to be directed to McDonalds.

    Any dispute over air pollution as a risk factor for heart disease should be directed to the American Heart Association since they endorse it.

    Its not my theory. Medical Researchers beat me to it by about 10 years. I can only discuss their theory.

    Sadly, despite better medical advances, heart failure is on therapid increase. It isn't all good news.
    iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
    No, it has an X or Y axis that details a numeric value, it does not associate any comparison to an action. Let's say I take that data and remove your comments concerning McDonald's and replace it with the general public's taste in music and then try to draw a conclusion that heart disease declines despite the introduction of Disco, it doesn't mean anything.

    For you to prove no association to causation, you would need an axis that compares the increase or decrease in the consumption of McDonald's. What you are trying to do is prove there is no association which is like proving something didn't happen mathematically, that's very difficult and almost impossible.

    Again, I am curious why you decided to stop posting. You obviously have some passion for this. Oh well, good luck.
    bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
    Bottom line: As fast food sales grew, death rates from heart disease declined.

    Take care,
    iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
    And by that data presented, as music shifted from Rock to Disco to Punk, heart disease declined.

    Here's a great example of comparing a negative association to a causation I just finished reading;
    bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
    "And by that data presented, as music shifted from Rock to Disco to Punk, heart disease declined. "

    Precisely. The change in music had nothing to do with the decline in heart disease. Likewise the bad change in America's eating habits to fast food also had nothing to do with the decline.

    The typical guy on the street has this association of a fast food with inducing heart disease. I certainly grew up with that association. Its still stuck in my mind.

    So if fast food does cause heart disease, why did heart disease decline while fast food consumption increased?

    That was the point of the timeline overlay.
    iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
    Easy, medical advances. Medical treatment gets better which reduces heart disease which off sets the impact of fast food, again pretty simple. I doesn't mean there wasn't more heart disease as a result of fast food because the data looks at deaths. It could very well be true that heart disease increased due to fast food but medical advances was more effective controlling heart disease than the consumption of fast food was associated with it impact on causing deaths.

    Again, it is very difficult to prove something didn't happen due to an outside association, that's my point.
    bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
    You are correct about the graph line being DEATH RATES from heart disease, and most certainly better health care could prevent a death.

    But how would one explain the decline in INCIDENCE of heart disease ( different graph) as fast food consumption increased? Fewer Americans were getting heart disease as fast food increased.

    How would one explain the higher rates of heart disease in populations that had yet to become fast food nations?

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