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    Statins: Lowering Cholesterol, Raising Debate
    bobby75703 posted:
    There has been a great debate if statins have any value in primary prevention, but these Doctors take it one step further and call statins "useless".

    The tide is turning in this fresh article dated 3-19-2013
    iride6606 responded:
    Another magazine article based on a doctor's opinion which is not backed up by any data. This is so very simple, get those doctors together, get some money and do a trial. Clears all this up yet no one has ever or probably will ever do so. Does anyone wonder why? There has been too much work done that shows the opposite that no one will risk their professional reputation to do so.

    It is that simple, I'm not one who is moved by "a doctor's opinion" when I can read tens of thousands of pages of data.
    bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
    These Physicians have a right to their opinion, just as you have a right to your opinion.

    Opinions will differ. Sometimes substantially.
    iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
    I have no idea how you come to that conclusion based on my post.

    Again, they have a right to their OPINION. My point was simply that I would rather go by the tens of thousands of pages of data that supports what other doctors still have as their opinion backing lower cholesterol than the OPINION of a doctor in Europe that has no data to back his. Again, these doctors should do their own work and not just pick apart the work of others.

    Also, let's be clear. Although we are both entitled to our opinions, understand there is a huge difference. My opinion only affects me, their opinion affects how they treat their patients so they best be sure and not going on an opinion.
    bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
    Thats fine if you believe in those tens of thousands of pages. Not everybody does.
    iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
    And NO ONE does anything to prove to us, the public, otherwise. They write articles about opinions and are too cheap or afraid to do the study on the problem.

    I remember when Dr. Beatrice Galomb at USC was going to do a study that would be a game changer. It would disprove the cholesterol theory and get statins out of the market. Wonder what happened to that study? Did you ever see any published results? Is this one of the "missing" trials that has never been published? No, her grand study ended up being a small randomized trial with a mere 1,000 participants that showed that fatigue is a side effect of a statin. Really, that's it? So since that wasn't the game changer she hoped for, instead she has created a website where those that have had bad experiences with statins can go so she can collect that data. Wow, that's never been done before.

    So to all those doctors that share the ant-stain & cholesterol "opinion", do the work, commit the time and effort and put your reputation on the line like every drug company does everytime it funds a study. Step up to the plate so we can have more than their opinions. I would love to see credible evidence to the contrary.
    bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
    I think what happened is industry just followed the money. Public demand to lower cholesterol was very high, so they met that demand. The statins were a gold mine and are still wildly profitable today.

    Side effects were minimized or swept under the rug altogether. When people like Dr. Galomb tried to warn of the problems with statins, most turned a deaf ear.

    Big money has a freakish way of causing even those with high standards to bend. No one is immune, not even myself.

    I guess I don't really care about ink on paper, or this study or that.

    What we have is a long trail of injured people, and no proof these drugs prevent heart disease.
    iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
    When people like Dr. Galomb tried to warn of the problems with statins, most turned a deaf ear.

    No, she made some bold statements on sites like Weston Price about how she could prove statins did all these terrible things as far back as 2004. Many of us wondered what she knew that we didn't and did we get it wrong. She was so self assured and bragged of this major study she was going to do. What did we get, a small randomized study that could show a link to fatigue with statin use. No one turned a deaf ear, she had nothing to say after all and the previous work that was done was still the standard.

    We don't have a long trail of injured people, no more than with any other drug and even less than most.This class of drug has been proven to lower cholesterol and lower cholesterol is even today being proven by new trials to lower the risk of heart disease.

    I would never leave my standards aside for any cause. Again, I don't believe in a flawed human nature.
    CODDAM replied to bobby75703's response:
    Are you kidding ? Medicine is a science and no trained physician should make such outrageous statements without some scientific trials and data. Many of the megalomaniacs in the world have an " opinion" . Do you stand up for them?

    This is how so much misinformation gets published on the web. Did you really go to med school.
    bobby75703 replied to CODDAM's response:
    No, I am not kidding. There actually are physicians out there that don't believe in the lipid hypothesis or statins.

    I myself do not believe blocking the mevalonate pathway and all its downstream products does anything to prevent heart disease or heart attacks. In fact, I believe its partly responsible for the sudden rise in heart failure, low testosterone, and a host of other health problems.

    Science is whats missing from today's market medicine culture. Sadly commercial interests have taken over. Its sad, really sad.
    tinywench replied to bobby75703's response:
    I just got prescribed father had horrible side effects from it. I will pass on these meds and try to lower my cholesterol naturally. FYI..Dr. Oz just had a shw on this subject...was informative. IF my cholestrol does not come down in the next six weeks when I go for another blood test...then MAYBE I will think about using it.
    Cosmic_Charley responded:
    A year ago I would have agreed completely with this line of discussion but after a blocked carotid artery and rising blood pressure I finally gave in and I am taking my statins like a good boy. I did everything right. I tryed to eat right, exercise right, I took all the appropriate suppliments and still ended up with a problem. Go figure. There are a certain amount of genetics in this problem. I am not advocating that everyone be on statins but there are some of us who apparently need something to help control the cholesterol. At this point I believe that my earlier years of eating the way we were told to was wrong and I am paying the price as a senior citizen.
    bobby75703 replied to Cosmic_Charley's response:
    Charlie, you bring up a very good point about doing everything right, and still ending up with a blockage. You are not alone. There are many people who, like you, who eat right exercise right and take good care of themselves, yet end up with atherosclerosis.

    To further ad to the puzzle are the folks who lived all wrong and have perfectly clear arteries. It reminds me of how much more we have to learn about vascular disease.

    Bottom line is about half the heart attacks happen to people with high cholesterol, while the other half happen to people with low cholesterol.

    I'm all for a healthy diet and exercise, but I think there is more to this disease than we realize. Its time to think outside the box.
    iride6606 replied to CODDAM's response:
    Thank you, a voice of reason. I completely understand your position. I am a research analyst with a doctorate in statistical probability and have contributed on many papers and I see how how these scientists, researchers and medical professionals work to keep these trials within the guidelines. It takes a lot of money and even more man hours.

    What bothers me is that the people that make these claims won't do their own work. They won't commit the money and effort or risk their reputations to do their own trials. After all, back a failed trial and there goes your ability to make money writing books and publishing papers.

    Instead, they get the data derived from the work of others and look for trends to support their position. It is truly a sad way to make a living.
    iride6606 replied to Cosmic_Charley's response:
    Sorry to hear of your problems, nothing is worse than learning the hard way. There are those that would say that your problem is indicative of the issue, you did everything right and still had a problem. What they ignore is the genetic involvement you point out. They also like to throw around statements like half of those that had heart attacks had normal cholesterol. It's like saying half of those that get shot own guns, they are not connected. Many people die of heart attacks with a normal cholesterol levels because they had electrical issues or problems with various myopathies that have nothing to do with cholesterol, high or low, but it sounds more impressive to leave that part out. You have to do what is best for you. As you, I don't advocate people do or don't use a statin, I do what I feel is right and want everyone else to do the same. The difference is some of us would prefer not to come on a website and tell people that their treatment is useless. I'm not a doctor and I would prefer not to play one.

    Be healthy!

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