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Your Cholesterol May Be Mom's Fault
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iride6606 posted:
Here's a very interesting concept that is being looked at. It seems there is a link to a woman's cholesterol level BEFORE becoming pregnant and high cholesterol being passed to her offspring. Meaning that if your mother exposed you to high cholesterol in her womb it may have predisposed you to having higher levels of LDL.

Very interesting theory and could lead to treating young women before they begin families. This is based on data collected from the Framingham study and will need further analysis to see if there's more than just a link. But think of the implications, if a young woman knew she could protect her offspring from high cholesterol by keeping hers under control before becoming pregnant it could change the way we look at preventing heart disease in the future.

Anyways, take a look;

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/high-cholesterol-could-be-your-mothers-fault
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bobby75703 responded:
Cholesterol is a vital bio chemical to life. Its not a fault. Without it we could not be born, grow, or have healthy lives.

Why is there is so much cholesterol in an egg? Because that's what it takes to build a new chick.

Nature knows what it is doing.
 
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iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
Did this article say anything about cholesterol not being necessary? Did this article or I even try to say how much is too much? Nope, just read it again nothing there, It simply said there was a link to HIGH LDL CHOLESTEROL and the mother's cholesterol level before she became pregnant and suggests there may be a way to change how we treat heart disease in the future, that's all.

In no way did the article or I say anything about going without cholesterol.

The amazing thing people may realize about this if they just don't get too wrapped up in cholesterol being good or bad is that a woman who is ready to start a family may be able to affect her child's risk of developing a propensity for high LDL. Think about it, the majority of cholesterol in our body is created by our body but there is no clear understanding of why our bodies are set where they are. Perhaps that level was imprinted into our genes because of how much we exposed to in the womb. Sounds like it could make sense. No conspiracy, not anti-cholesterol rhetoric, no statin pandering just passing along an interesting article.
 
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bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
The only place where there is an association of cholesterol levels and risk for heart disease is among commercial circles.

Nothing sells pills or food products better than a "study" showing a benefit...


But In the real world there is not even a hint of any association between serum cholesterol levels and heart disease.

The public is growing wary. With each passing day fewer and fewer people buy into it.

Its all about money.
 
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iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
Here's your link explained as the root cause, this is what we know, it's not theory it is the process in which atherogenesis takes place. This is not speculation or a mere link between cholesterol and atherosclerosis, this is how it happens. I can't make it any more clear. Do you have this type of info for air pollution as a cause? This is the real world, it is fully explained and absolutely proves that high LDL cholesterol is the underlying cause of cardiovascular disease. This is not tied to money, this is not hype. Again this IS the real world and things like air pollution are just speculation.

What more would you need to know? Big picture thinking is required.

Likewise, the most successful therapy for atherothrombotic vascular disease in humans—lowering plasma LDL concentrations—attacks the root cause of atherogenesis, which is subendothelial apoB lipoprotein retention. Although it is theoretically possible that future therapies directed at the inflammatory, endothelial, or oxidative components of lesion progression may prove successful as adjunct strategies, such therapies have not been shown to be useful thus far and will likely never be used in the absence of drugs or other manipulations that lower plasma levels of atherogenic lipoproteins.

Lipoprotein entry and retention within the subendothelium and hence atherogenesis depend on sustained plasma levels of apoB lipoproteins. Lipoprotein size, charge, and composition and endothelial permeability may influence lipoprotein entry, but less certainty exists in these areas. Features of the arterial wall such as susceptible versus resistant areas, lesions versus healthy segments, and diabetic versus nondiabetic vasculature also may affect lipoprotein retention, as discussed in a following section.

Despite the complexity of advanced atherosclerosis, a clear root cause exists—subendothelial retention of apoB-containing lipoproteins—that has been and should continue to be a major focus of interventions to combat atherothrombotic vascular disease. The unequivocal success of LDL-lowering therapy is a testimony to this overall concept, as is the emerging discussion on how early such therapy should be instituted in at-risk young individuals. In this sense, a critically important goal remains the continued development of drugs that complement the LDL-lowing actions of statins, like cholesterol absorption inhibitors, which are in current clinical use, and inhibitors of PCSK9, apoB transcription, and apoB lipoprotein secretion, which are being developed.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/116/16/1832.full
 
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iride6606 replied to iride6606's response:

Here you go. some like to use pictures. Here's the photos from that article that actually shows LDL cholesterol infiltrating an artery wall, really cool. Pics are fun...........

 
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bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
There is no question cholesterol gets caught up in the process, along with other components in the blood.


But to blame cholesterol as being the villain of this process is not the answer. Cholesterol is supposed to be in the blood, just like calcium.

Cardiovascular disease happens at all cholesterol levels, and all to often at low LDL levels. Meanwhile, many people with very high cholesterol levels have clear arteries.

If we are to make progress in the battle against heart disease, Its time to gain an understanding why the process happens.

So far nobody can agree. Different professionals subscribe to different theories. Its enough to make your head spin.

But villianizing cholesterol = big bucks, so it will be around as long as it can squeeze the last dollar out of the public.
 
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iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
I'm sorry, you said previously;

But In the real world there is not even a hint of any association between serum cholesterol levels and heart disease.

Now you say;

There is no question cholesterol gets caught up in the process, along with other components in the blood.

Also;

But to blame cholesterol as being the villain of this process is not the answer. Cholesterol is supposed to be in the blood, just like calcium.

How much is supposed to be in the blood? Again, read the link, how much and the process are well explained.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/116/16/1832.full

So far nobody can agree. Different professionals subscribe to different theories.

The vast majority of Doctors do agree which is why they treat high LDL first. I think we have debunked the monetary issue here many times, big picture thing.
 
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bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
Yes, cholesterol gets caught up in the process, but altering its levels does NOTHING to stop the process or slow it down.

This is why people who take statins still develop cardiovascular disease.

This is why statins fail to stop the process.

This is why people who take statins still go on to have heart attacks.

This is why people with low low low cholesterol still plug up.

Chasing cholesterol levels for better cardiovascular outcomes is like a dog chasing its tail.

But Villianizing cholesterol = big bucks.
 
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iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
Yes, cholesterol gets caught up in the process, but altering its levels does NOTHING to stop the process or slow it down.

Again, read the link. We need to know the facts and not just headlines.

This is why people who take statins still develop cardiovascular disease.

This is why statins fail to stop the process.

This is why people who take statins still go on to have heart attacks.

This is why people with low low low cholesterol still plug up.

Chasing cholesterol levels for better cardiovascular outcomes is like a dog chasing its tail.

All misleading and mostly wrong. 45% of the people on statins start AFTER they have their first cardiac event or after they have had high cholesterol for many years so they are already at risk. Statins do not repair damage already done. The people with low cholesterol are very low risk for heart attack. Reducing cholesterol gives you a 42% reduction in risk for a cardiac event and please don't argue relative risk as you have been quoting relative risk in the form of an RRI in all you pollution links. No on is making a villain out of cholesterol, just taking proven scientific fact and helping people reduce their risk.

Cholesterol causes Alzheimer's and statins reduce the risk. All known facts.

You need to read the link, expand your thinking.
 
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bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
If a person believes in drug industry funded studies of their own product, then yes.

I myself dismiss them and no longer read them for the same reason I don't read grocery store tabloids.

I dismiss the hype and look at the real world.

Villianizing cholesterol = Big bucks.. and the cholesterol lowering industry will continue to paint an evil picture of LDL until they squeeze the last dollar out of the last sucker.
 
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iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
I myself dismiss them and no longer read them for the same reason I don't read grocery store tabloids.

Interesting considering in the past 6 days you have started threads with three studies about air pollution and one about the public opinion on statins. So I assume you did not read these studies and I must therefore be correct that you glean you data from headlines, not data which is fine many people do. Some one had a thread here not too long ago about cherry picking data, we should revisit that to help us keep our discussions in perspective.

I dismiss the hype and look at the real world.

Want the real world? Here it is. Statins continue to get attention for being such a money machine. Strange when you look at the actual data, they are not even the top selling class of drugs. Sure, Lipitor is number one but even it's down 42%. So here it is, the real world, ho hype;

Oncologics topped the class rankings based on total spending with $22.3 billion, followed by respiratory agents, lipid regulators, antidiabetes drugs, and antipsychotics.

Are those Oncologists making a villain out of cancer I wonder? As you can see, the REAL big bucks are coming from cancer drugs and respiratory agents, not lipid lowering regulators. Everyone, that's the real word on the financial side.

FYI, the top selling drugs in the us are Lipitor, Nexium, Plavix, Advair, Abilify, Seroquel, Singulair, Crestor, Actos and Ectogen. Only 2 statins in the top 10, that's real world, what gets spit out as the "statin money machine" is hype.

This is why it's important to read beyond the headlines, to filter out the hype.
 
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bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
This is why it's important to read beyond the headlines, to filter out the hype.


Best thing you ever said. All it takes is insight to be able to filter out the marketing hype from legitimate science. Unfortunately too many publications are nothing more than Big pharma marketing.


Its sad we have gone down this road:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1140949/
 
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iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
Thanks, we needed another example of hype. What we have here is the opinion of Richard Smith, former editor of the BMJ in a speech he gave in London in 2004. His opinion and he is welcome to it. Does not mean we have gone down that road, but it is his opinion.

Good for him for voicing his opinion.
 
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bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
The demonizing of cholesterol is purely profit motivated.

Nobody demonizes white blood cells, yet they are part of artery plaque process.

Nobody demonizes calcium, yet it clogs arteries.


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