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bobby75703 posted:
In natures design, was mankind really meant to manage his cholesterol?
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iride6606 responded:
Not part of the design, just a benefit of not living n the dark ages and progressing with science. Was mankind really meant to fight the common cold, polio, cancer ect...?
 
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bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
Fighting diseases like polio or cancer was not the question. Nor is the dark ages or progression of science part of the question either.

In Natures design, was mankind really meant to manage his cholesterol?
 
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iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
I'm sorry, are we starting a new trend and actually only giving an on-topic response to a question? Does this mean there will be no more "drug comany bad" or "statins are a golden goose" responses to other questions that are way off topic?

Yes, mankind was designed to improve his situation wherever possible tp prolong life. More on topic?
 
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bobby75703 replied to iride6606's response:
"Mankind was designed to improve his situation wherever possible to prolong life" evades the question.

By natures design, is mankind really meant to manage his cholesterol?

Its a YES or NO answer.
 
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billh99 replied to bobby75703's response:
In Natures design, was mankind really meant to manage his cholesterol?

In Natures design, what was mankind's lifestyle?
And what was the cholesterol levels with that lifestyle?
 
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iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
Yes
 
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djomal replied to billh99's response:
l believe the answer is "No", since Cholesterol is the primary weapon of the immune system, is in every cell of our bodies, and stopping the liver from producing something the body needs, is insane, particularly since the science that says LDL is bad and HDL is good, is totally bogus.
You have to do your own research on what the actual "studies" actually say about it, not the drug industry's advocates.
HDL is LDL concentrated, going back to the liver. Its benefit is non-existant: See this study:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-05/biom-rhn051512.php
Regards,
 
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billh99 replied to djomal's response:
4 hours ago djomal replied to billh99 's response: l believe the answer is "No",

The questions that I ask could not be answered with a Yes or No.

So I will repeat them;
In Natures design, what was mankind's lifestyle?
And what was the cholesterol levels with that lifestyle?

HDL is LDL concentrated, going back to the liver
.

No there are different Apolipoproteins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apolipoprotein and those different apoliporoties along with the cholesterol and other items for different liproproteins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipoprotein

Its (HDL) benefit is non-existant: See this study:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-05/biom-rhn051512.php

THIS ARTICLE DOES NOT SAY THAT AT ALL. It talks about RAISING HDL. In fact is says ;

More than 30 years ago, human epidemiological studies first revealed an association between HDL and risk for heart attack: the higher the levels, the lower the risk. Experiments in cells and mice further support the idea and suggest that HDL is protective because it may remove cholesterol from the sites where it can do damage. However, it has been difficult for researchers to prove conclusively that raising HDL levels is beneficial, primarily for two reasons. First, studies of human genetic diseases where individuals have very low HDL levels have not yielded definitive answers as to the impact on heart attack. And second, because there are currently no drugs that specifically elevate HDL levels, it has been difficult to prove in humans that such an intervention will lower heart attack risk.

Also it say; There is a well-studied connection between elevated LDL, often called the "bad cholesterol," and heart attack. Decades of research, including studies of genetic disorders in humans and the discovery of the LDL receptor and its role in cholesterol regulation, paved the way for the development of life-saving drugs known as statins. This work showed beyond any reasonable doubt that many different methods of reducing a person's LDL levels lower the risk of heart disease.

Now is this an article that you claim to prove it your ideas.

It say that lowering LDL with statins is LIFE SAVING and HDL levels are indicative of risk.
 
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iride6606 replied to billh99's response:
Bill, you are correct. That is exactly what the article says. This is such a strange thing to debate, whether or not we should take the opportunity to improve our risk of heart disease. Why would we not want to based on man's physiology thousands of years ago?
 
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djomal replied to billh99's response:
The fact that something is "associated" with something else does not prove causation, but the Drug and Medical industry claim Cholesterol is the cause of arteriosclerosis because it is found in the arteries. Cholesterol is the end result of wounds that become infected, and the invaders killed by the immune system, which heats the area of infected arterial cells. Cholesterol only becomes "sticky" when it is heated, -where there is an immune reaction to infection. Cholesterol coats the wound and stops the inflammation. That internal "scab" also contains dead invader cells that will be recognized by other immune sensor cells that circulate in the blood.
The cause of arteriosclerosis is oxidation/reduction of the intima by oxidizing agents, like Insulin and other byproducts of chemical reactions in the body. Insulin in the pancreas is stored in six unit molecules which are electrically stable. When glucose is recognized in the blood, single, unstable molecules of Insulin are released into the blood that act as keys to open the glucose receptors in the muscle cells. If the cells do not need more fuel, both insulin and glucose continue to circulate and irritate the artery walls.
You won't get arteriosclerosis if you exercise, period.
Or you can avoid carbohydrates, the primary source of glucose. The old Adkins diet turns out to be right, and exercise is what the 2.3 million year old Homo genus needs to survive. Unfortunately, that doesn't come in bottle of expensive pills. Also, if you exercise you wont' need MD's, and that is also bad for business.
Billh99's answer to my link is selective editing. The whole article needs to be read to be fair.
Regards,
 
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iride6606 replied to djomal's response:
You won't get arteriosclerosis if you exercise, period.


Wow, that is just all kinds of wrong;


On July 20, 1984, Fixx died at age 52 of a fulminant heart attack , after his daily run on Vermont Route 15 in Hardwick . The autopsy revealed that atherosclerosis had blocked one coronary artery 95%, a second 85%, and a third 70%.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx


Your article is focused on recent research that has determined that HDL may not be a good marker for heart disease, it does in no way play down the effects of increased cholesterol, more specifically LDL, with an increased risk of cardiac events. I think what we're finding in the research arena is we need to validate what we have always felt were markers for someone who is predisposed to heat disease, which is what this article is about. There was never an intent to disprove the link between cholesterol and heart disease.


We have know for a few years, since the AIM HIGH trial that there are indeed different types of HDL and some were more effective than others when it comes to recycling LDL. AIM HIGH proved that artificially created HDL did not act the same as naturally occurring HDL which was driven by the recent research into lipid particle separation.
 
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billh99 replied to djomal's response:
You won't get arteriosclerosis if you exercise, period.

On July 20, 1984, Fixx died at age 52 of a fulminant heart attack , after his daily run on Vermont Route 15 in Hardwick . The autopsy revealed that atherosclerosis had blocked one coronary artery 95%, a second 85%, and a third 70%.[3>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx

 
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bobby75703 replied to billh99's response:
Jim Fixx and other marathon runners who develop atherosclerosis come to my mind every now and then. Its a stark reminder we still have much to learn about this disease.
 
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iride6606 replied to bobby75703's response:
No it's not, read his history. His father died of a heart attack at 43. He was predisposed by genetics and in fact had a very high TC. He was a heavy smoker in his early years before changing his lifestyle. He was a poster child for everything we now about cholesterol and heart disease.


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