'A Patient Voice' Community

richard asks, could you take your own life if you had a horrible disease that you knew would lead to a horrible death.

i hope i could do so. i hope i could tell the right time -- that is, sometime before i was unable to do it unaided by another.

i've thought about this. i've thought about whether it would be worse to live, alert and sentient, in a grotesquely distorted shell, or to be as my mother was, able to get out of bed, to eat, to drink, but having forgotten why she would ever want to do any of those things. richard's friend was still alive; my mother was already dead.

this is a judgment i made long ago. for me, timing is the only detail left.

-- susie margaret

I WATCHED MORRIE ON NIGHT LINE BEFORE HIS STUDENT WROTE THE BOOK "" TUESDAYS WITH MORRIE ""...I LEARNED MUCH FROM MORRIE...AND HAVE TWO COPIES OF THE BOOK...PLEASE DO READ IT IF YOU HAVE NOT HE TEACHES US SO MUCH...THANK YOU MORRIE..

NOT SURE I COULD DO IT...HOPE I COULD ....BET THEN MORRIE WENT OUT THE WAY WE SHOULD..

TIFF

I have secondary progressive MS. There is not a doubt in my mind that I could end my life without hesitation if there would be certain untenable suffering.The philosophical question of course is, what constitutes certain suffering and in what degree would the suffering become untenable. I do not believe that one must have a terminal illness to justify suicide. For me, the thing that I am most frightened of is not being able to care for myself and getting so bad that my family would be incapable of caring for me as well. MS, like so many other diseases, leaves the mental acuity of the sufferer more or less in tact. I could never be at the largesse of others in a nursing home environment. Thus, for me, it would not take a disease leading to certain death to justify suicide or assisted suicide. I am reminded of the MS patients Dr. Kevorkian helped. There was no quality of life left for those patients. And who is to decide when the right time is to end one's life? Your illustrations of ALS patients provides the answer. It is up to the one who is suffering to determine when life itself is no longer worth living. My threshold will not be your threshold will not be S. Hawkins' threshold, etc. What you are really asking, I believe, is could you end your own life if and when that quality of life is destroyed beyond your own endurance. My answer is a resounding YES and like susiemargaret, timing is the only detail left.

I cannot disagree with your posts. I agree re timing being critical whilst one still has ability if they so choose. I have thought of this previously and ironically only recently. Reading your posts I am reminded by my previous thoughts re this and if ever I had the chance to and did not act on, only to later find myself no longer being able to act on, then I am not sure I could forgive myself. I wonder if I would not live my every day in silent measures of self punishment, humilation, failure and degradation. Strange how fear of living overrides fear of dying when you have a chronic and progressive illness wherein the only known certainty is uncertainty. To live with mind without body I fear I do not want.

I defend anyone's right to take his or her life. I have secondary progressive, too. My frustration can be strong, and it overtakes me sometimes. Instead of hemlock, I have a martini. I have too much to live for. I will bet you do, too.

Find what is good in your life. Revel in what you can do. Think. Feel. Suicide is fashionable. I always wonder why an MS patient used his services, except if it really was the worst case scenario. ALS I could understand. Please keep fighting. Being dead is really boring.

My best,

RMC

Yes. Living is harder than dying. But you reveal little about what you are dealing with. Open up, and we can talk.

Best,

RMC

Dear RMC

Where to start - How to start -

I too have MS - revealing is difficult for me - I'm not sure I know how to open up or chat -

My diagnosis has come at a great cost to me - I hate this -

To becoming strong in broken places -

purpleslippersorangebedsocks

Dear purpleslippersorangebedsocks-

It is good to hear from you. I know how difficult it is to share, how painful to reveal. I also know that we construct monsters in our heads. We allow MS to overtake and take over our identities because those two letters are all we see when we gaze into the mirror. I went through that when I was younger, even though I was a successful journalist with many friends.

You are not your disease. I'll bet I could make you smile if I met you. Please break out of your funk. Help others and smile. Live your life. We are too afraid of others, which is why we stay in the closet. It is dark in there, and all you get is a runaway imagination and socks and slippers that do not match.

My best,

RMC

Yes, I certainly agree that living is sometimes harder than dying but personal religious believes also play a part in that! It is a sin to commit "suicide" either by it being assisted or self inflicted. I would much rather worry about my soul after a long and suffering life that finally came to an end -vs- taking part in ending my life prematurely and then having to deal with the consequences. Peace be with you all

Dear Early Retirement

Please know that my words to follow are not intended as criticism and that I have indeed thought long and hard before posting this reply.

It took me great courage to add my posting and after reading RMC's reply I actually found myself somewhat encouraged to add a further posting. I found warmth in his words and indeed did even smile! I needed this at that time. I appreciated it.

But alas, this welcomed feeling that was beginning to bring me out of my shell felt as though it was crudely stolen from me as I read your comments re things being a "sin".

I do not judge your vierwpoints and thank you for you wish of peace. Please know though your posting did far from bring me peace.

Please respect my choice to reply to your posting without disrepect for your beliefs. Please also know I think my beliefs are for me to form and not to be judged by others who hold contrasting viewpoints.

I wish you well in life, though feel it is only respectful that we acknowledge the potential for impact (good, bad or indifferent), of the words we write and how we write them.

I wish you continued strengths in your beliefs and support they bring you, though may they not be used to make judgement of mine.

Regards

I live with a chronic pain condition along with multiple other diagnoses. Some days are horribly painful, I'm unable to get out of bed, to care for myself or to function. I'm on disability from a career I loved, one that I sacrificed much to have. My income is barely enough to eat each month, and God forbid I have an extra prescription to fill. My illnesses are not ones that are typically fatal.

And then some days are glorious. I can go sit outside and bask in the sun and in God's love. I get to hear and see the joy of my adopted brother and parents. I have opportunities to give back for all the blessings I have had bestowed on me.

And I've considered this, especially on those bad days. But for me, even on those horrid days, I choose life. And that's today. I can't say what tomorrow would bring.

My grandfather had Alzheimers. He went from being a sportsman and hunter, to being confined in a hospital (despite our family trying desperately to get him released to our care, very long story). He worked for months to get a weekend pass, and killed himself while at home.

Mentally, I totally understand. His life was intolerable. He was still mentally functional and what was happening to him was pure torture. I hold no ill feelings towards him for making this choice.

But 27 years later, I'm still in pain over this. He didn't say goodbye, he didn't give us a chance to make things different, and he knew we were trying. This has caused a significant amount of pain and anger amongst the family, that I don't believe will ever be healed.

So, my choice will always be to live, to make the best of my life as I can and to know that the gift of my life is not one I can throw away lightly.

Despite my severe limitations, I hold a volunteer job, I have started and run two support groups for people with fibromyalgia, I do a significant amount of awareness raising for fibro and I run a support page on facebook that currently has 800 members. I just started blogging for an integrative wellness website. I do live with Fibro written across my forehead, but I live the best life I can and I enjoy every moment of it, even when I can't get out of bed.

Thank you for a great topic. I hope everyone knows my opinions are for me, I would never presume to say what choices someone else should make for their life. I too have religious beliefs, but those are mine, and in all honesty, even with the thinking I do about this, my religious beliefs factor in very little. I have had to think more about what is right for me.

Aimee

Hey, you. Go find those warm feelings again. You have been sidetracked by that exchange. You are okay and have the power to be even better. Keep reminding yourself this is a long siege and you are not alone. The shared experiences and emotions are real. Write when I can help.

Best,

RMC

Aimee:

Good choice. Let others do what they believe is right for them. Obviously, you believe in yourself and find joy where you can. Never lose those qualities.

My best,

RMC

"...He was still mentally functional and what was happening to him was pure torture. I hold no ill feelings towards him for making this choice..."

My father is wandering down that very road. I don't know where it will lead...

What I do know is he's been the best dad I could ever have and I can accept whatever he decides is best.



You're right. Our lives are meant to be shared. But, we also have a right to make our own decisions, too. Think about it. Who else is more qualified?

I trust my dad with no reservations. Whatever he decides, I know if was for the right reasons.