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    An_243896 posted:
    my fasting sugar level is always 168 even having medicine. what can i do?
    DoloresTeresa responded:
    The first thing you can do is tell us what you eat, what meds you are on, if you exercise. I am assuming you are overweight. If you are not that is another problem.

    auriga1 responded:
    How is your diet? Are you watching how many carbs you eat? Can ask a thousand questions here.

    There are many reasons why your fasting sugar is high.

    Your post is a little vague. This forum is composed of diabetics who control their diabetes through diet and exercise alone, or the same with meds and/or insulin.

    I was able to get my fasting to normal (this a.m. 88) by lowering carb intake, exercising and taking insulin. I need two insulins to control my diabetes. When I eat less carbs, I am able to use less insulin.

    My a.m. fasting was usually between 250 and 300. I had no weight to lose, so insulin was my only option.

    If you can expand on what you eat, if you have weight to lose, if you exercise, what type of medicine you use, etc., someone might be able to help.
    RGARANMULA replied to DoloresTeresa's response:
    I ate one roti with some vegitable curry along with Amaryl 3mg tab. i do exercise everyday. i have idle weight of 70 kg and 176cm hight.
    DoloresTeresa replied to RGARANMULA's response:
    I looked up roti. If it is the kind made with oil and you put ghee on it then you are having more fat than I would eat. I do not know about others on this group who eat meat and some fat. I eat mostly vegetables. I do not know if they would agree that you should eliminate as much fat as possible from your diet. Fat blocks insulin receptors on the cells and thus prevents the sugar in the blood from entering the cell. Do you eat a lot of oil and/or ghee or butter?

    DavidHueben responded:
    Dietary fats are an essential nutritional components. There are some "good (or better)" fats and some that should be consumed in moderation. The following is a good discussion of fats in the diet from the Mayo Clinic:

    I have seen nothing that supports the notion that moderate and recommended intake of fats impedes the action of insulin at the cellular level.

    We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

    - Winston S. Churchill

    DoloresTeresa replied to DavidHueben's response:
    There is fat in oatmeal and other grains and there is fat in leafy green vegetables. I know the main source of nourishment for the brain is glucose but the source of nourishment for the heart is fat. Having said this one has to wonder how much is enough.

    Among hunter gatherers, the game meat they eat is about four percent fat by weight and termites are about 23 percent fat. Refined oils from seeds are a fairly modern invention except for olive oil and their use in the diet is questionable. Is there any disagreement about trans fats?

    Fuhrman is a proponent of a high fat diet but the fat is in the form of nuts, seeds and avocados. For anyone who is overweight he recommends no more than one ounce per day. His diet is very low carb although vegan.

    The Vogel brachial artery test shows that while fats prevent the arteries from expanding, walnuts at least cause an increase in diameter of 23 percent. Salmon also doesn't seem to prevent expansion of the arteries after a meal.

    Here is one thing I found.

    In the above article, scroll down to the section "diet and insulin resistance" then scroll down to "conclusion". Journal references are provided in the article.

    I assumed it was common knowledge that fat prevented the insulin from allowing the glucose to enter the cell. It has been described as something similar to gumming up a lock so a key wouldn't fit.

    Atkins told people to go off his diet for a week before a glucose tolerance test. Otherwise they would test diabetic. So there is something about an extremely low carb diet that causes this.

    I also tried the Zone Diet once to test the statement that fat added to carbs controls blood sugar. After one and two hours, Sears was correct. My blood sugars didn't rise as high. However, after three and four hours, about the time when I would have eaten another meal, the blood sugars rose--all the fat did was delay the rise, not stop it. I would rather the sugars rose high after eating than just before my next meal which would mean I would start out the meal with the blood sugar already high.

    DavidHueben replied to DoloresTeresa's response:
    I don't think it is "common knowledge" that good dietary fats block insulin uptake.

    Being fat does increase insulin resistance, but consuming fats if you are at a healthy weight does not.

    Can you reference a good source that supports the idea that ingesting fats "blocks" insulin uptake?

    We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

    - Winston S. Churchill

    mhall6252 replied to DoloresTeresa's response:
    I did Atkins for years, and I have read two of his books. I don't recall his advice to go off the diet before having a glucose tolerance test. Can you provide a quote? I do recall him saying that his diet might keep fasting numbers in the range between 100-119 or so. That's right about where mine live most of the time. That said, my a1c remained under 6.0 for many years.

    Clinical research has shown that Atkins works quite well to control blood sugar. My own experience showed the same results.
    Diabetic since 5/2001
    Follow my journey at
    Smile and the world smiles with you.
    DoloresTeresa replied to mhall6252's response:
    My own library no longer carries the atkins books but they might have them in another library downtown or by interlibrary loan. When I find them I will post quotes from books. In his second book, Dr.Atkins Nutrition Breakthrough he reports that his diet does not control blood sugar after a while (he says in some but gives no numbers) and he invents his meat and millet diet for diabetics--adding grains to his diet.

    nwsmom replied to DoloresTeresa's response:
    If you have branch libraries, or if your library has interlibrary loan (most of them work with other facilities in the general area), you can request specific books. This includes books that are no longer on the "active" shelves. Just call your library for information.

    nutrijoy responded:
    Dolores, you raised an interesting point with David about fat interfering with insulin absorption but I think that you might have cellular fat confused with dietary fat. Cellular fat does block insulin receptors and contributes to insulin resistance. However, dietary fat does not have a similar effect, at least not until the fats are digested, absorbed, and stored into the system to make most people even fatter. The ingestion of carbohydrates with fats in a meal will greatly accelerate the process to facilitate the storage of dietary fats instead of being burned for fuel (because carbs will always trump fat and get burned instead). That's one reason why the Atkins diet worked so well for so many; excluding or minimizing carbs enabled the body to burn the fats for fuel instead of storing them. There is one exception regarding dietary fat: if the person is already fat and eats a high-fat diet, it will prevent muscles from enlarging maximally with heavy weight lifting and exercise and thus suggest blockage of insulin receptors. (J Physiol 2009;587:5753—5765)

    Although Atkins himself died (auto accident?) before his theories were ultimately validated and almost all knowledgeable forum members know that they have to avoid carbs in general (not just fast-acting ones), the USDA, FDA, ADA, and far too many doctors, dieticians and "diabetic" cookbooks/recipes continue to promote the inclusion of an abundance of carbohydrates in the diabetic diet. Newbie diabetics (perhaps including the thread starter, An_243896) continue to include too high a percentage of carbs in their meals and then wonder why their blood sugars are consistently elevated.

    Dietary fats continue to be demonized although numerous, more recent studies have failed to confirm that dietary fats are the culprit in the many diseases associated with corpulence. Still, tens of millions of Americans comply with the dietary advice given, avoid dietary fats, eat more "whole grains," engage in daily exercise (sales of home exercise equipment and gym memberships have soared during the past couple of decades) and, in short, comply with all of the "healthy" things that they are advised to do. Yet American waistlines have continued to expand, the population as a whole continues to pile on the pounds, and diabetes (and other diseases associated with heightened BMI) has mushroomed. In fact, if body corpulence was formally classified as a disease, it would be rated as a worldwide epidemic ... in parallel with the adoption of American-type food/diets (mere coincidence or ???). Anyone else see that there's something terribly wrong with this picture?

    Back on topic. An_243896, if you're still following this thread that you started, if you would respond to the questions asked in the first two posts by Dolores and Auriga, you will receive lots of helpful advice but without more information, it would be equivalent to shooting in the dark.
    DoloresTeresa replied to nutrijoy's response:
    Nutrijoy, I couldn't find this post and responded to david on another post. I have not yet found that fat in the diet causes blockage of insulin receptors except from a source that david would not accept so I did not post it.

    I have been diabetic for 20 years and do not take meds. My fasting sugars have been in the low seventies except for going up to 84 recently when I had a respiratory infection and could not exercise. I eat potatoes, rice, corn, oatmeal etc and mostly lots of vegetables. I do not use fats or oils but do eat an ounce or two of clams which I throw into vegetable soup and occasionally wild caught sockeye salmon--a couple of ounces per week.

    I see a retina specialist twice a year and there are no eye problems at all. No retinopathy, ARMD, cataracts, glaucoma. He seems surprised and I am assuming many of his diabetic patients have some of these problems. Twenty years ago I had some neuropathy but now none at all. I have not had a blood panel done in a long time so I do not have anymore information.

    I do agree that if you are going to have a lot of meat and fat in your diet, you should probably not be eating carbs. To me it goes without saying that processed carbs are not good on any diet.

    Ken812 responded:
    Fasting sugar of 168 mg/ml is very high. First, you should limit your total carbs in your meals. 1 gram of carb <=> 5 mg/dl for a 140lb person for a type 1 diabetic or type 2 with no insulin production from pancreas. Of course you can adjust this if your pancreas still makes some inslulin.

    First, limit your total carbs daily as much as possible. The ideal formular is 6 12 12. That means 6 grams of carb for breakfast, 12 carbs for lunch, and 12 carbs for dinner. Second, do exercise daily at least 20 minutes a day.
    And last and most importantly, take medication if your doctor prescribed.

    Good luck!

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