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    is your approach working?
    jc3737 posted:
    The best way to tell(I should say the only way to tell) if ones approach is working is if you are totally free form the need to medicate.

    Just reducing meds is a sign of failure.You need to be totally free.

    I finally found an approach that works without the need for ANY medication.
    flutetooter responded:
    Sounds like the beginning of a sales pitch.
    If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!
    mrscora01 responded:
    Not only a sales pitch, but kind of mean too. In some cases, no matter what you do, medication is required. These people are NOT failures.

    T1 1966, Dialysis 2001, kidney transplant and pump 2002, pancreas transplant 2008
    Debsbears responded:
    Not only does this sound harsh but this person has not been here in over 3 yrs. I would be leery. Some have to have meds to control their diabetes no matter what they eat.
    I shall wait upon the Lord and renew my strength.
    Come follow my life's journey at:

    jc3737 replied to Debsbears's response:
    Not a sales pitch or mean but I did find an approach that worked for me and from what I can tell it has worked for a number of others.

    Has anyone heard of the book..."The Starch Solution" by Dr John McDougall?It details a plan to cure hear disease and diabetes.

    If you don't believe me try this diet for one week and see what happens.

    The type of starch you eat makes all the difference,but for the first few weeks eat only baked potatoes,brown rice,beans and water...nothing else goes into your sugar,no fat,no oil,no spices,no salt,only beans,brown rice,baked potatoes,and water.

    The diet lowered my blood pressure form 210/110 to around 125/70 and my fasting blood sugar from an avg of 136 to an avg of 84 and my A1C is now 4.8.
    jc3737 replied to mrscora01's response:
    MrsCora01,The people are not failures but their approach is failing them.
    Anon_320 replied to jc3737's response:
    How horribly unhealthy.

    For one thing, your body can't function without fats and oils. Fat helps the body absorb nutrients from the other foods you eat. Here's an article that covers a lot of the benefits of fats and oils: . One of the most immediately noticeable side effects of leaving fat completely out of your diet is that you become chronically constipated.

    I won't even go into the other vital foods that such a restrictive diet doesn't allow.

    There are other ways to control blood glucose that won't make you even less healthy than when you started. Even for just a few weeks, this is a scary, extreme diet that nobody should follow.
    anon615 replied to Anon_320's response:
    Although there is no traditional culture that totally avoids meat, there are plenty of traditional cultures that might have meat as a condiment rather than an aliment to flavor foods. Or some very healthy blue zone Sardinians who are not vegetarian but who might eat meat only a few times per year.

    If a plant based diet is extreme and unhealthy then you have to explain billions of people around the world who are healthy and have less heart disease, diabetes and cancer than in the western world and who eat diets whose staple foods are either rice, corn, potatoes, wheat or other starches like cassava, taro, sweet potatoes etc. The Hadza of East Africa are a hunter gatherer tribe whose main staple is a starchy root which the women gather. The men go out an average of twenty nine times hunting for big game before they are successful. A video on you tube followed the best hunter in the tribe on a hunt for birds. They gave up filming after a while because he was unsuccessful. So by necessity some must depend on starches.

    I look in my cupboard and find there is fat naturally in corn, oatmeal and whole grains. A few nuts and seeds would provide fat if you think you won't be healthy without fat.

    I cannot argue about what is the best diet for you. You know your own body and it is you who have to take the consequences of your choice. As do I with my choices. But I do see some on this group who started out low carb, their sugars rise, they start on meds, they write that they need more meds etc. And the advice always seems to be--cut back on carbs even more.

    I doubt that many on this group would enjoy the movie Forks Over Knives which is available on netflix. There are at least a couple of people in that movie who got their blood sugars low enough to eliminate their meds. I am sure you can point to others who went low carb and eliminated meds. Time will tell if these people in both camps can maintain low blood sugars without meds. I do not like to use the term failure but rather prefer to ask--is this working? Is there something I can do differently? Am I doing everything I can to improve or maintain my health such as getting enough sleep and exercise and reducing stress as much as possible? If it is inevitable that we must eventually use meds or insulin is there a way to postpone it as long as possible?

    I hardly know what to say to the assertion that you will be constipated without fat in your diet!! A high fruit vegetable grains and starches and legumes diet has plenty of fiber and prevents constipation. If you are familiar with Burkett who practiced medicine in Uganda, you will know that those Africans on a high fiber plant based diet did not suffer constipation as did those wealthier people on a diet including less plants and more meat and fat. Your correspondence is the first I ever heard anywhere that you will be constipated without fat in your diet. (Maybe if you are on a higher animal protein diet you do need fat to keep things moving along!) I will have to investigate this interesting concept.

    An_245101 responded:
    The problem with your diet is:
    anon615 replied to An_245101's response:
    Actually, you will find many recipes in McDougall's cookbooks with nuts, seeds, avocado and soy. The amounts are limited and these foods are considered special occasion items. Fuhrman has a plant based low starch diet and insists that fats are healthy and he incorporates lots of nuts, seeds and avocados on his diet. However even he says if you have artery or heart disease to limit nuts and seeds to about one ounce. Esselstyn only limits nuts seeds avocados (and oils) in those who have heart disease (and I would add diabetes). Just about everyone recommends flaxseed.

    Perhaps you are unaware that many many omnivores are B12 deficient. Especially, I am guessing if they have replaced red meat with chicken which has about 0.3 mcg B12 in about three or four ounces of meat. It takes a lot of chicken to meet the requirement. All plant based promoters advise taking B12 supplements or eating fortified food.

    Jimmy Moore whose website livin la vida loca lost (and publicized the weight he lost) on his low carb diet. I do not know how many years he was on this diet but Jimmy gained a whole lot of weight. Evidently the low carb diet did not work for him forever (although one wonders why the first ten pounds didn't give him the impetus to try something new. ) Which he did. He is now on something that he calls nutritional ketosis adding more fat to the diet (and perhaps less animal protein.) Already he has lost sixty pounds. Let's keep our eye on Jimmy. His total cholesterol is over 340 and his LDL cholesterol is over 240. Jimmy is not worried. Although these numbers are high his trigs are low, he says his blood sugar and insulin are normal and his CAC shows no occlusion in his arteries. However, with that CT scan, signs of calcification predict heart disease but no signs do not mean your arteries are in good shape. Remember, only about 12% of heart attacks are from calcified arteries and the rest are from younger uncalcified plaques. And Jimmy is young. For all of us it takes years for certain degenerative diseases to develop. None of us should be lulled into complacency about our health no matter what lifestyle we choose.

    Check out Atkins book, Dr Atkins Nutrition Breakthrough in which he says that some of his diabetic patients (he does not say how many) "adjust" to his diet--meaning their blood sugars start to rise. So he invents his meat and millet diet in which he adds grains and starches and says this is the best diabetic diet. I do not recall seeing any follow up on his meat and millet diet. One guy on another group suggests it is impossible for Akins' patients to have rising blood sugars on such a low carb diet. They must have been cheating. In which case Atkins would have been smart enough to figure that out.

    So if you are on a low carb diet and not gaining weight and your blood sugars are fine and you do not need to increase or add meds then this diet is working for you--maybe. The same with someone on a McDougall or Esselstyn type diet.

    To mention the American Heart Association advice is somewhat humorous. Just about any diet always does better than the AHA diet for heart disease. And to suggest asking your doctor about diet is usually not such good advice because he has had about 3 or 4 hours of nutrition education in med school. You probably know more about nutrition than most doctors.

    There are lots and lots of people who eat a plant based diet and testify that their numbers improved and other health problems cleared up. I am sure that you have read lots of testimonies (like Jimmy Moore's) in which people swear by low carb. Everyone has to make a choice. I respectfully disagree with yours while acknowledging that although the plant based diet seems to be working for me, your low carb diet could usher in excellent health and reversal of diabetes for you.

    An_245101 replied to anon615's response:
    If your reply was intended for me - I DO NOT follow other peoples diets or food plans - I follow what my DR and Nutritionist plan they worked out for me, period.

    My choles is below 160, trigs 87, I am well controlled in my sugars and not on meds.

    I eat chicken, fish, and eggs. No red meat - and no white products. I drink water - coffee - tea. I eat plenty of fruits and veggibles.

    I am just tired of people on this site telling people "what they should be eating" per what others advise.

    We are not Drs - we are suppose to suggest how to eat better but not "TELL" others this is how they should eat because it is the only way, It is not. Our Doctors are supposed to tell us how and what to eat.

    You can eat how you eat - the original posted can eat how he eats - but quit trying to force it upon all of us. what works for one doesn't always work for another.

    I follow the plan I was given because it works for me.
    brunosbud responded:
    Good post, jc3737.
    From my perspective, most any diet works provided they advocate, three things...

    1. Eat, less
    2. Eat, nutritious
    3. Exercise, more

    Assuming no frying, beans, brown rice and unpeeled potatoes each offer outstanding nutrition.

    "Sales pitch"? Yeah, to better health...
    anon615 replied to An_245101's response:
    I believe I specifically said that I can not argue about which diet is good for you (or anyone) and that you know your own body. How anyone can construe that to be "trying to force" one particular diet on anyone mystifies me. And I believe you were the one who wrote the post: This is what is wrong with your diet: which contained some misinformation about the McDougall diet.

    I believe this is a support group. I assume that there are many who tune in and read but never post. Is it the policy of this website to only advocate one type of diet for controlling diabetes or are all welcome to contribute--even those who have had great success using something other than low carb? If only low carbers are welcome and the policy of this group is to promote only the low carb way of eating then it is only fair to post this clearly so everyone knows what to expect on this site.

    And if everyone is welcome then it stands to reason that if someone writes that his sugars are rising and he needs more meds then it is reasonable to entertain opinions from either low carbers or higher carbers. And an opinion is just that. Not a show of force.

    jc3737 replied to anon615's response:
    For those who disagree with the starch approach;

    Try eating potatoes,brown rice,and beans for a few weeks and see what happens to your blood glucose...try it and see....then we don't have to debate because you will likely be convinced.

    There are areas of rural China where all they eat is rice and vegetables 99.9% of the time.No meat,no fish... only rice and vegetables.They have almost none of the western diseases like cancer.diabetes.and heart dieaease.

    There are healthy long lived societies all over the globe that thrive on starches....some have potatoes as their base starch,some have wheat, and some have rice but all are healthy without fat....FAR healthier than any of the western societies.

    Since I Iadopted the diet I no longer need any medication of any beta blockers,no ace inhibitors,no metaformin,no diuretics....I never take any medication of any type...not even aspirin.

    But don't give up your meds until your blood sugar stays in the 80s for a good while.
    jc3737 replied to An_245101's response:
    I can say from exerience this article is not accurate.Many thousands have tried the diet and it works for almost everyone.

    Its only dangerous when someone mistakes french fries for potatoes or white bread for 100% whole grains,or fails to eliminate sugar,or other fats.

    Its only dangerous when not followed to the letter....and as Dr McDougall says "Moderation Kills".

    If you are going to try the diet do it all the way.

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