Skip to content


    Attention All WebMD Community Members:

    These message boards are closed to posting. Please head on over to our new WebMD Message Boards to check out and participate in the great conversations taking place:

    Your new WebMD Message Boards are now open!

    Making the move is as easy as 1-2-3.

    1. Head over to this page:

    2. Choose the tag from the drop-down menu that clicks most with you (and add it to any posts you create so others can easily find and sort through posts)

    3. Start posting

    Have questions? Email us anytime at

    More Food For Thought: Lose Weight by Achieving Optimal Ketosis
    brunosbud posted:

    Optimal Ketosis purports the benefits of carbohydrate restriction to reduce insulin resistance and improve Type 2 Diabetes outcomes. Dr. Bernstein advocates a ketogenic dietary approach for his diabetes patients.

    The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide to Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable (Volek & Phinney)

    "Keto Eating" is gaining interest in medical circles but still remains in the fringes in terms of treatment for Type 2 Diabetes.

    Does anyone wish to share their experience with Keto-Eating (Low Carb-High Fat) and were they able to lower A1C through higher blood ketone levels?

    glucerna responded:
    I went to an interesting talk on this topic Saturday, and I'd also like to hear from people who follow this approach now, or have followed it in the past. The speaker recommended no more than 50g of carbohydrate per day, moderate protein intake, and 70% of calories from fat. It's a different approach than we're used to, and needs more study. ~Lynn @Glucerna
    betatoo replied to glucerna's response:
    The eskimo diet was a faddy thing in the 80's sounds pretty close to this one. I pretty much agree to the 50 g of carbs, but then again I really don't count carbs. I don't eat white starches and very few brown starches so most of my carbs come from veggies and fruit. Apple a day, 4-5 cups of veggies a meal, except for breakfast. I find that this is doable for me, as we have been discussing doing the thing that works. Time line? 4 years now, and instead of getting more lax, I have gotten stricter.
    flutetooter responded:
    I have this book amoung other similar low carb approaches. Different diets work better for different people. What works best for me is Barry Sears' "Zone" books and approach which is 40% of calories from carbs (mostly limited fruits and non starchy veggies, with little grains), 30% from lean protein, and 30% from good fats. Note that this is % of CALORIES, not amount on the plate. Since fats have more calories per gram than protein and carbs, the fat amount will look considerably smaller.
    If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!
    brunosbud responded:
    I posted this to confirm to myself how little people think, from a metabolic perspective, what foods to eat and why. Peter Attia, MD is such a person curious about diet and what "works best".

    "Ketogenic Diet Improves Insulin Sensitivity and Numerous Aging Markers"

    Note: I realize that maybe 1 in 50 will actually watch this entire video to completion, so, if you catch nothing else, please, watch the Q & A beginning at 1:02:20 and follow it to the end. It's a bit technical, I'll grant, but if you can follow just a bit of it, it will blow the ever-lovin doors off your boat!)

    Ketosis is essentially the shift towards fueling the body primarily on ketones (from fats) rather than glucose (from carbs). This is done, primarily, through diet. In Peter's case, 80% fats and only a handful of carbs from vegetables and a few nuts. Some sugar is allowed (dark chocolate and berries).

    I've often wondered about the "Dawn Phenom" and the frustration it must cause for diabetics who obsess with their care and diet, all day, only to get ambushed by their liver at night. The solution? Deplete the liver's glycogen stores by eliminating it's primary source: Carbohydrates. In other words, make fat the fuel.

    PS: I highly recommend readers try to catch Judi Dench's performance in "Philomena". She's phenomenal and the movie is nothing short of brilliant.

    flutetooter replied to brunosbud's response:
    OK Bruno, I'm 1 in 50 and watched the entire video. Fascinating! I escpecially enjoyed the Q & A's. It is good to know that a person can do this plan in steps or partially and still have benefits. Dr. Bernstein's book, Diabetes Solution, is also about very low carbs. I keep that handy on my shelves, also.
    If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!
    glucerna replied to flutetooter's response:
    I'm curious how people feel about eating a diet that contains 70-80% of calories from fat. Has anyone tried this? What types of foods do you eat? ~Lynn @Glucerna
    brunosbud replied to glucerna's response:
    Personally, Glucerna, I always consider these personal "journeys" extrapolated into broad-stroke summations (about diet) to be troublesome. Not everybody is 40 and trains 3-6 hours a day. lol

    I've been eating one avocado a day for the last 8 years. I average about 5 organic eggs/week. I do use butter instead of margarine. And, I eat nuts, regularly. I have no idea what percentage of fat that represents...To be honest, I don't really care because my diabetes is well controlled without medication.

    The biggest "grain of salt" in Dr. Attia's work is actually a boulder!: EXERCISE. This guy is an exercising super-freak! Could the amount of exercise that he performs, daily, influence bio-markers such as blood pressure, HDL, triglycerides, % bodyfat & insulin resistance? Ah, golly-gee-willikers, I'm gonna have to think about that for a minute...Duhhhhhhhhhh!

    In conclusion, slashing sugar and daily exercise is something everybody, at any age, in any condition can take to the bank. I don't care if I "shame" people when I say it. I don't give a shiny shoe if their feelings get hurt and they think I should be a little "nicer". Diabetes is a rough game. If you want to beat it, you gonna have to grow a "pair"!
    betatoo replied to brunosbud's response:
    There are too many out there that find excuses, and there are many more that enable them to do so. If your health is your concern. . . . DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Yes I meant to shout.
    glucerna replied to betatoo's response:
    I agree that each person needs to find an eating plan that works for them. Sometimes people don't know how to begin making changes, and hearing about other people's food choices can give them helpful ideas. I absolutely agree with you about the powerful role of exercise, especially in today's society where so much of our time is spent sitting. I've started standing and walking around when I'm on the phone instead of sitting and it really helps - along with purposeful exercise, of course. ~Lynn @Glucerna
    betatoo replied to glucerna's response:
    I can understand someone in the 50's, 60's, 70's not being able to find good information on their own, and often finding misleading information. Even the Diabetes Organizations could not come to consensus on how to treat diabetes. However, that said the internet with forums, reference areas and excellent information allows one to educate themselves and make the educated decision for a path to follow. It may not be a correct decision in the beginning, but then they have the tools to test, the information to make experiments, and if they are halfway intelligent can come to a point where they can live with it, and keep their diabetes under control. Much easier for T2 than T1, but the information is out there.
    flutetooter replied to glucerna's response:
    Glucerna, I never said that I ate 70-80% of my calories from fat. I just said that I had read a certain book and watched a video about that aproach. I use proportions that work for me, but do a lot of research on ideas that I can adapt. Right now my exercise is limited to mostly walking for the next few weeks while my body adjusts to a pacemaker that was implanted a week ago. I have about another 6 weeks and 2 checkups from the electropysiologist/surgeon before lifting my left arm above the shoulder so as not to dislodge the leads from the pacemaker to the heart. Meanwhile I have to cut back on my carbs, especially and calories in general to match my activity level. That is my personal approach. Another person may elect to raise their medication level (with the doctor's knowledge) or just let their blood sugars rise and write in to this site to ask what to do.
    If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!
    betatoo replied to flutetooter's response:
    Flute, you are one here that needs no excuses. . . do what you gotta do gal!

    Good luck on the recovery. I hope this piece of hardware helps make the rest of living a little easier.

    flutetooter replied to betatoo's response:
    Thanks, Beta. I needed a pep talk this morning! I finally came to understand that a low heartbeat is great in athletes, but not so much for me. The pacemaker will increase by pulse from lows in the 30s to 40s at night and in the a.m. to a low of 60 beats per minute or so. That is supposd to get more oxygen 24/7 to my organs and brain, and in general increases a person's active life span by years to "decades". I'll take that! BTW, the doctor did an excellent job of placing it under the skin fairly near my left shoulder so it won't even be noticeable. (TMI , I know).
    If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!
    nutrijoy responded:
    Bruno, it's no secret that I have always been an active experimenter when it comes to personal dietary modifications and the use of nutritional supplements. I did go on a very high fat (semi-ketogenic) diet for approximately 2.5 years. It was paleo-like in nature with lots of meats (with high marbling content), tons of eggs (5 to 6 per day), cheeses of many varieties, cooking almost exclusively with butter (organic), eating at least one avocado per day, and numerous other high-fat foods. During my 2.5 year experiment, I saw my serum cholesterol rise from the 170 total range to 225, the level at which my endo suggested that I needed to start taking statins.

    Because I view statin meds as more toxic than they are beneficial, I immediately declined. However, my endo stated that treatment protocols required him to at least recommend (and if acceptable to the patient, to prescribe) statins for me. I replied that he could notate in my patient records that he had complied with protocols but that I had refused his recommendation for statins. Protocols, of course, are targeted at the lowest common denominator in the population and rarely consider individual health parameters such as HDL-to-total ratios, whether a patient already suffers from other health issues, etc. In my case, during virtually my entire 2.5 year high-fat experiment, my ratio of HDL-to-total cholesterol never climbed higher than 2.4. In addition, of the fifty point increase that I experienced eating a high fat diet, a whopping sixty percent of the increase was in HDL, not LDL. I also did/do not have any cardiac-related issues.

    What other benefits did I see in my blood work and A1c? Well, high fat consumption saw a decline in my triglycerides level which plummeted to just 50 points due to the very low content of carbs in my diet during this period. I am insulin—dependent and was able to reduce my insulin use during the experiment but it did not appreciably affect my A1c level since I was already in the 5.0 range. My A1c has since dropped into the 4.x range (4.8 for two years running but rising to 4.9 during my last blood test in January). I know there are some forum members (e.g., Dolores) who avoids fats at all costs but I can't help but wonder if or how much damage such people are doing to their overall health since certain fatty acids are essential and vital to our bodies and, in particular, for our brains. There are essential fatty acids (from fat) and essential amino acids (from protein) that can only be obtained from dietary sources (in other words, "essential" means that our bodies are incapable of producing/synthesizing them). In contrast, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate and we can remain quite healthy without dietary carbs despite claims to the contrary.

    I eventually ended my experiment with meat and high fats and returned to a largely plant-based diet except for 2 eggs per day (instead of 5 or 6) and some occasional cheese (but not daily). The fat content of my daily diet is still somewhat higher than the average. My primary cooking oil is now coconut oil (I only use butter on relatively rare occasions). My favorite "eating oil" that I sprinkle onto salads, dips, and other non-cooked foods is avocado oil (I chucked the olive oil) supplemented with a little sesame seed oil and grape seed oil. The primary motivating factor for returning to plant-based foods was that I felt I was missing out on too many phytonutrients, antioxidants, minerals and other nutritional ingredients that can only be obtained from plant sources.

    Of course, I did make heavy use of nutritional supplements during my high fat experiment and still continue to take CoQ10, alphalipoic acid, biotin, D3, B-complex, melatonin, benfotiamine, HQ multivitamin/mineral complex and others. Hope that this provides you with some of the info you seek.

    Helpful Tips

    tips to help me help a family member
    does anyone have tips to bring down diabetes More
    Was this Helpful?
    1 of 1 found this helpful

    Expert Blog

    Conquering Diabetes - Michael Dansinger, MD

    Dr. Michael Dansinger provides thoughtful tips for those with type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes who want to reclaim their health...Read More

    Related Drug Reviews

    • Drug Name User Reviews

    Report Problems With Your Medications to the FDA

    FDAYou are encouraged to report negative side effects of prescription drugs to the FDA. Visit the FDA MedWatch website or call 1-800-FDA-1088.