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    Article by Denise Minger
    DoloresTeresa posted:
    jc and others: I do not know how to get this link but there is an article on denise minger's blog titled, "Forks Over Knives, Is the Science Legit? A review and critique. by denise of course.

    The article is so long I didn't even finish it but I book marked it and intend to go back. On the side of this page there are lists of other articles she wrote that you might be very interested in. I am not knowledgeable enough to contradict her--she has quite a knowledge of statistics. However, I do take issue with her statement that HDL rises on a high meat low carb diet. Of course it would. What she doesn't point out is that LDL rises even more. So you are not gaining anything.

    She also uses Campbell's own data to show that it is wheat that is responsible for heart disease although she doesn't give a mechanism, just statistics. I find myself wondering how wheat can cause blockage in arteries.

    jc3737 responded:
    I don't understand it either so I have no idea who is right in that debate.Thats why I wanted to see Heretic and Jeff N, and Dr McDougall debate the issue.Out of the back and forth of debate I think we probably would have learned a great deal.
    Tomato05 responded:
    Wheat doesn't cause blockage, but raises insulin, which is the link to heart disease.
    jc3737 replied to Tomato05's response:
    Processed wheat is a link to heart disease but certainly not the only link....and almost all wheat is processed.But is whole wheat linked to heart disease?...I have seen no evidence to that effect.

    Here is Dr T Colin Campbells answer to Denise M,
    Tomato05 replied to jc3737's response:
    Don't whole wheat products have about the same glycemic index as white products (i.e. not low)? So, they will have the same effect on blood sugar...

    For example, w/w bread has a similar GI to white bread, and brown rice has only a slightly lower GI than white rice.
    DoloresTeresa replied to Tomato05's response:
    Animal protein raises insulin more than a lot of carbs. We just have no way of testing it. Fat in animal products (and oils and fats) cause insulin resistance. I never worry about glycemic index because I eat only whole foods. I wouldn't eat white bread no matter what the glycemic index.

    Tomato05 replied to DoloresTeresa's response:
    Just curious - why can one not test whether animal protein raises insulin? Wouldn't a blood sugar test reveal the effect?
    DoloresTeresa replied to Tomato05's response:
    The fact that animal protein raises insulin in many cases more than carbs has already been studied and for those who know how to search, is information which is readily available. No, a blood sugar test tells something about blood sugar. There are tests for insulin but I believe something else is measured in the blood so it is an indirect test. It is expensive and uncommon.

    If you eat fat and test your blood sugar, you will find that the sugar has not risen very much. So people on a high fat or high protein diet believe their blood sugar is just fine. But these things make one insulin resistant and, as Dr. Atkins himself found out, the blood sugar will rise after a while and the person is on the way to diabetes. He discusses this in his second book.

    He also says to go off his diet for a week or so before you have a glucose tolerance test because otherwise you will test diabetic. So there you have it from the horse's mouth that those low blood sugar readings that you may have been getting while on his high fat and meat diet are illusory and while your sugar may read low, you are becoming so insulin resistant that a glucose tolerance test will tell the lab that you are diabetic. If you are insulin resistant then the pancreas keeps pumping out more and more insulin to try to overcome the resistance.


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