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    This is interesting
    dteresa posted:

    This person seems to be doing well on a ketogenic diet. My only thoughts at present are--he has only been doing this for about a year and a half. He is still young. He mentioned using several minerals to supplement his diet. I surely would love to see his comments 3 or 5 or 10 years down the line (well, I probably won't be around 10 years down the line)

    He also talks about customizing the diet depending on the individual. I do not know if this means for athletes only or for people in general. It seems a bit complicated for the general public.

    engineerguy responded:
    Hi folks,

    He did say that he was eating refined carbohydrates, but all the exercise was "supposed to" make that OK.

    So, he is comparing the high protein program to a program that we all agree is bad (lots of refined carbohydrates).

    The take home message is that, for many or most people, lots of exercise cannot make up for a bad diet. That was clearly his experience, as he was gaining weight and becoming pre-diabetic, eating a diet high in refined carbohydrates, even with lots of exercise.

    From my post March 30, 2007:

    Iron Man Triathelon

    Hi, folks,

    Ever wonder if the Ornish diet is good for athletes, or adequate for you to exercise?

    The Pritikin diet is the same as Ornish. Pritikin was criticized, that his diet was OK to suck the fat out of a heart patient, but an athlete would fall flat on his diet. Too low in fat. So Pritikin opened a kitchen in Hawaii for 6 weeks, for 3 athletes training for the Hawaii Iron Man Triathelon. That's 2.4 mile ocean swim, 112 mile bicycle, and 26.2 mile marathon run. There is no rest between events.

    The 3 athletes placed 1st, 2nd, and 4th, of 850 entrants, in the 1982 Hawaii Iron Man Triathelon. Clearly, the diet is excellent for an athlete.

    Dave Scott placed first. "He cooks up two pounds of brown rice and leaves it on the stove, and eats it all through the day, along with yogurt, vegetables, and up to 20 pieces of fruit per day." (1) Dave has been on the diet 9 years. Dave's diet is 10% fat, 15% protein, 75% unrefined carbs.
    Notice that there are no oils, or meat.

    Best regards, EngineerGuy

    (1) Pritikin, Diet For Runners, 1985, p. 49.
    dteresa replied to engineerguy's response:
    actually, EG, the guy in the video said his diet was now little protein and lots of fat. He was at one time eating about 250 gms protein per day but improved on a very high fat diet. Which is more or less what H eats I believe. What I don't understand is how you can feel energetic on a high fat diet because supposedly fat causes the blood cells to clump together. I have seen videos of the change in the blood vessels when fat is consumed. The circulation slows down which means the tissues are getting less oxygen (about 20% less). He also does not mention the dehydration on a ketogenic diet.

    heretk replied to dteresa's response:
    Re: " I have seen videos of the change in the blood vessels when fat is consumed. "

    No! That happens only on a high fat diet that is also high in carbohydrates at the same time! I have seen the studies that have claimed so but all they did was added lots of fat to a meal that was already high in carbohydrates!

    A pure high fat meal does no such thing at all! In fact, high fat diet causes initially blood clotting to be reduced. Doctors in Poland from Arcadia clinics, who administer high fat diet since 1980-ties, warn people taking blood thinning mediction to be reduced otherwise it may cause bleeding. Also, athletes practicing contact sports (i.e. boxing, bungee jumps etc) are advised to abstain from it for a few months until blood clootting normalizes, in order to avoid excessive bruising or bleeding, that may be dangerous.

    You see there are lots of facts and information like that that are being totally ignored or twisted around by the American diet promoters and incompetent scientists, due to ignorance and arrogance. I am refering not only to vegan promoters we watch, but also to many of the paleo-diet promoters. It is a cultural "resistance to knowledge" phenomenon, probably specific only to N.America and Europe.


    jc3737 replied to heretk's response:
    Is there any scientific evidence that the problems with fat happen only when combined with a high carb diet?

    If its true there should be mountains of data on pubmed.
    jc3737 replied to jc3737's response:
    Is there?
    anon615 replied to heretk's response:
    H, I am confused by the high fat diet lowering blood clotting so that those on blood thinners should be aware that the diet reduces blood clotting. I thought a high fat diet contained plenty of vitamin K2 (newborns are given a shot of K to prevent bleeding and I guess to make sure the blood will clot properly)
    I suspect that plavix depletes K2 because it causes bleeding and you can tell who is taking plavix because they are full of black and blue marks. Although I am almost done with the plavix, I have lately been wondering about this. That perhaps a diet of goose livers would have prevented plavix caused bleeding.. {Also I believe that lack of K2 causes a build up of artery blockages, which I just found out So one wonders about exactly what is going on. So it seems that the common wisdom is that K2 AIDS in clotting and a high fat diet is rich in K2.. I think

    heretk replied to anon615's response:
    No, the reason behind lowering of the clotting factor is low insulin, and other processes not dependent on K2. Also K2 is one of many contributory factors.

    That warning about clotting reduction and increased (temporary) risk of bleeding is often repeated to patients applying Optimal Diet for the first time, in Poland. They also recommend refraining for a period of time, from certain high impact sports such as boxing and bungee jumping.

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