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jc3737 posted:
From Pub Med;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/941870
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heretk responded:
JC, that paper basically seems to confirm that the high carbohydrate (43%) medium fat diet does not work for any diabetics at all, where as a high carbohydrate (75%) low fat diet helps only in mild diabetes but not in severe cases.

Please keep in mind that the mild cases patients who injected insulin, were adding the injected amount of insulin on top of the insulin their pancreas was already producing thus their total insulin requirement was most likely very high. Thus a decrease in injections from 28 to 15 units does not mean that the total insulin requirement was halved. For the sake of illustration, if a patient's pancreas was producing 60iu, plus 28iu injected, and on the low fat diet it was 60iu plus 15iu then it was probably not a very large improvement, overall.

JC - I meant to write it before, but this gives me a sense of urgency:

- be VERY careful about advising diabetic patients in the diabetes forum to embark upon a McDougall style high starch diet! Such diets may work for healthy non-diabetics like you or for people with only a mild form of diabetes but advanced diabetics seem to have a very hard time with it, mainly due to unpredictable glucose spikes. I have seen may many case stories like that even in Dr. McDougall's own forum (see under "Health Issues" section).

Please keep in mind that your glucose control is good because you do NOT suffer from chronic insulin resistance, nor from diabetes!

Therefore, the moment you reduce the total dietary fat intake and reduce the intake of toxic wheat (which derails metabolism in many different ways other than through carbs alone), your normal physiological insulin resistance immediately goes down, your insulin level comes down somewhat, which then causes your blood pressure and other endocrine functions to normalize. Insulin level has a big impact upon the entire endocrine hormonal system.

Other people who suffer from chronic metabolic resistance and have advanced diabetes, may not be that lucky and my suffer as a consequence, if they followed your advise or Dr. McDougall's. For such people, the root cause remedy is:

Carbohydrate Restriction!

I am no longer saying it as a hypothetical theory they way I used to talk about it 10 years ago on webmd forum. It has now been acknowledged _even_ by American medical establishment and is being written about all over the pubmed.

Heretic

 
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jc3737 replied to heretk's response:
I was diabetic before I started dieting and lost tons of weight.Was it the diet specifically or the massive wt loss???This diet has really brought down my FBG and post prandial glucose....as well as blood pressure so I'm a believer.Whether it works for everyone is another story.So I would advise someone to give it a 2 week trial and see if they respond.If it does not work for someone I don't think they will stay on it but its worth a try to see if its effective.It was for me and a friend of mine.

Its a diet followed by millions acrosss the globe so it does seem to work for many.... but not necessarily everyone.
 
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jc3737 replied to jc3737's response:
According to a statement by the American Diabetes Association, ""026there is little evidence that total carbohydrate is associated with the development of type 2 diabetes. Rather, a stronger association has been observed between total fat and saturated fat and type 2 diabetes."10 Multiple studies have shown an inverse relationship between the amount of carbohydrate consumed and the development of diabetes.11 Populations of people worldwide who eat diets centered on high glycemic index carbohydrates, like rice for rural Asians, and potatoes for people in Peru, are essentially free of diabetes.12,13

The reasons why carbohydrates benefit diabetics have their roots in our fundamental metabolism. As far back as 1936 Harold Percival Himsworth reported that the ability of insulin to lower blood sugar was improved by eating carbohydrates.15 In contrast, fats in the diet paralyze the activity of insulin, cause insulin resistance, and cause the blood sugars to rise.11 All these changes, combined with the resulting obesity from eating fatty foods, encourage the development of type-2 diabetes. For people now following the Western diet, a change to a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet slows progression to diabetes.16,17 This same diet will cure type-2 diabetes.18-20
 
 
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anon615 replied to heretk's response:
H, would you advise diabetics to use your diet? To tell you the truth, anyone should be careful of what he advises another person to eat, not knowing that person's particular circumstances.

If the medical establishment is writing about how good low carb diets are, it doesn't seem to match what I read on the diabetes group. People stick to low carb and lower and lower carb but many on these diets are adding med after med and insulin and their numbers still seem to be climbing. There are some who do keep their A1c low on low carb for a few years, some do it with low carb and lots of meds and others who simply do not. Despite what the medical establishment writes all over pubmed. One person wrote how well he has been doing on low carb for several years--low carb, two meds and insulin.

Dolores
 
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heretk replied to anon615's response:
Yes, I would, for most people (diabetics t1,2, cardiac and auto-immune patients!), because it is proven by thousands of cases in Arcadia clinics network in Poland in the 1980-ties to date. I used to say this even before low carb became fashionable. Unlike low caloric low fat vegan diets, that seems to work in every case I know (at least for as long as they follow it).


Now, it is also being recommended even here, by many (surprisingly) N.American medical practitioners.

However, I do not recommend low carb nutrition style for you because I do not believe you would be able to apply it dilligently and fearlessly. I am afraid that a frequent switching of a diet would be dangerous for you. It is either from now on forever or not at all!


The reason is the moment you switch one way (from high carb to very low carb) your blood pressure & glucose normalize and blood clotting reduces resulting in dramatic reduction of a trombotic MI or stroke (and discarding of all cardiac meds!). The risk goes almost to zero but I do not know exactly how low because I do not have data cases of MI on the high animal fat very low carb diet.

The opposite takes place when you switch back to high carb: blood pressure and glucose fluctuations go up, blood clotting factor increases which may dramatically increase a risk of a heart event for a heart patient! After a while this also normalizes but it is the immediate period after the switch from low carb to high carb which would be IMHO dangerous for you.

Don't do it!

Stan
 
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anon615 replied to heretk's response:
H, Of my own personal acquaintances I know no one who is on low carb and sticks to it. It is possible that the same is true of those on a no meat and fat plant diet. The two people I know who are using it often eat cake, pizza, subs etc. I really don't think any way of eating will work if you don't stick to it. They have high hopes of avoiding heart disease and on already has diabetes, is on meds and has fasting levels of around 140. I think if you are going to try something you should give it a chance and go all the way with whatever plan you have chosen.

dolores


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