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    jc3737 posted:
    This has nothing to do with diet but it backs up prior discussions we have had about science and consciousness.Does matter create consciousness or does consciousness create matter?The most recent science see consciousness as the creator,as explained here by the head of the Max Plank Institute.

    The old mechanistic take on the nature of reality is as dead as Newton.

    "Think about the quantum physics [1> . Quantum physics has proven by physical tests that a higher field of consciousness (information field) in the universe exists (Alain Aspect [2> , Amit Goswami [3> ). The ruling string theory [4> assumes that it has our material universe there are many other dimensions of energy. The former head of the Max Planck Institute for Physics in Munich, Professor Hans-Peter Dürr believes that the brain by thinking a field of consciousness (quantum field) forms that can exist after the death of the body in the higher dimension further [5>
    • Dürr: "Basically, there is no such thing as material. Primarily, there exist only connections to material foundation. We could therefore call it consciousness material. Energy appears only as coagulated, secondarily, solidified spirit. Many discoveries of quantum physics are not only immaterial, but that is a work in completely different ways that has nothing to do with the standard three-dimensional spatial sense we have. It is a pure information field, a sort of quantum code. It has nothing to do with mass and energy. This information field spans the entire universe. The cosmos is whole information because this field has no limit. There is only one, but this one united entity is differentiated. "[6>
    • You are 78 years old. Do you believe in an afterlife? Is there existence after death? Dürr: "That is an interesting question. What we consider the here and now, this world, it is actually just the material level that is comprehensible. The beyond is an infinite reality that is much bigger. This world is rooted in. In this way, our lives in this plane of existence are encompassed, surrounded, by the afterworld already. My existence in this world is written on a sort of hard drive on the tangible (the brain). I have also transferred this data onto a spiritual quantum field (independent consciousness field). I do not lose this information, this consciousness. The body dies but the spiritual quantum field continues. In this way, I am immortal. "[7>
    jc3737 responded:
    In much of the 20th century physics had 2 camps.... the liberals who thought reality to be fundamentally energy,consciousness,or spirit and the old guard conservatives who held that matter was the creator of consciousness....Newtonian mechanics.

    Interesting that in the popular political divide its just the opposite....those who hold that matter is the base believe that matter is the cause of consciousness and that humans evolved by changes in matter....they are considered the liberals and those who explain the nature of reality as spiritual are the conservatives.

    Its just the opposite in science.

    To take this to the extreme it would follow that in the FINAL analysis food choices would be secondary to consciousness,thoughts and beliefs...."quantum information fields."

    Just might explain why we all know people who eat pure junk and anything they want and live long healthy lives.(even many with terrible genes).
    heretk responded:
    I think so too!

    Interesting that you mentioned that strange spiritual/political divide. In noticed that too back when I was still a scientist. I noticed that the most open and the most open minded among my colleagues would describe themselves as right-off the center, while our left-leaning friends always tended to argue about everything as if they new and I would rarely hear from them "oh that''s interesting let's look at it".

    That many of the most open-minded physicist tended not to be left-leaning politically was described in one of recent David Deutsch book on development of quantum computing. He called the group of unemployed ex NASA physicists of the 1980-ties the "right wing hippies".

    Stan (Heretic)
    heretk responded:
    For me personally, Quantum Mechanics led me to considering Hugh Everett's multiverse hypothesis as the only sane alternative against Copenhagen interpretation, which then led me directly to reading Seth, whom I came across on the internet around 1989 (actually - Genie and then Compuserve). From then on I started reading all their books. Right now we (my wife too) are reading the early sessions material. This whole thing is very strange but true (for me). Oh, by the way, I agree about the diet but I place mater and mind as two aspects that must be expressed equally. I disagree with people who completely ignore the physical. For some strange reason that does not seem to work. Nor the opposite: a total focus upon the material - those are two extremes.

    My short comments on Pritikin express my view. That' a sub-optimal diet, for example a low fat vegetarianism may work for someone who was so strong-willed super-enthusiastic and dedicated to the cause like him, but perhaps not for very long and not for others. The key tests are: "can it be replicated?" and "do contrary examples exist and if so why?"

    Best regards,
    Stan (Heretic)
    heretk replied to heretk's response:
    JC, I have to mention something else: some fascinating experiences resulted out of my thoughts-following exercises described by Seth.

    Did you try following some of your thoughts out beyond the point where they supposedly vanish?
    jc3737 replied to heretk's response:
    ". I disagree with people who completely ignore the physical. For some strange reason that does not seem to work. Nor the opposite: a total focus upon the material - those are two extremes.
    the physical is not to be ignored....its just thats its not the ultimate reality according to the latest science theories
    jc3737 replied to heretk's response:
    I think I tried that experiment with no result and gave up.Will try it again.

    Did you know that Hugh Everett's son is a semi famous rock star?I saw a TV special on Hugh Everett with his son looking into his fathers work.
    jc3737 replied to heretk's response:
    ". I noticed that the most open and the most open minded among my colleagues would describe themselves as right-off the center, while our left-leaning friends always tended to argue about everything as if they new and I would rarely hear from them "oh that''s interesting let's look at it".

    I noticed just the opposite....its usually those left of center that are the most open minded...but not always.Thats my experience.
    heretk replied to jc3737's response:
    Re: I noticed just the opposite..

    I know exactly what you mean. I think its because I grew up in Europe where the most un-yielding and the least tolerant political thinking (and most of the establishment!) associated itself with the collectivism. Communisms, socialisms, corporatisms, fascisms and other collectivistic "isms". I noticed that in the USA (but not in Canada) it is the opposite! You have experienced a lot of #$%@ups of the conservative-religious-right kind of types, while the collectivisms are awaiting yet to be fully experienced in the Unites States (and hopefully rejected).

    I think, the un-yielding types seem to be really the same kind of minds, on both sides of the Atlantic. We are really tallking about the same phenomenon using different words.
    heretk replied to jc3737's response:
    I saw the film. Very interesting.

    His skills were badly misused by the society he chose to live in. He was first rejected by the academics who didn't understand his ideas, and by the militarys who only used him to calculate nuclear fallout. He had no sponsors, no sanctuary and almost nobody to talk to. Not even in his family. I had a feeling that his son still has no idea about his dad's work and is baffled by the interest.
    heretk replied to jc3737's response:
    If you follow it, it will lead you to link to (to recall, sort of) your other existence(s). It may work better if a topic of your thought is a person or a place that you know very well or feel a kind of a kinship with. Then simply follow imagery, feelings and the thought, don't let it go. It works best if you are in alpha state (as per Silva meditation).

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