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    Nathan Pritikin
    heretk posted:
    Go to my blog by searching stan-heretic on google, then click on a link titled "Nathan Pritikin" on the left hand side of my blog page. It is a short text document I wrote after watching long and interesting Pritikin talk, from 1982, on you tube.


    I am avoiding posting the links since when I posted the direct link to it here, the post disappeared, probably spamcoped.
    jc3737 responded:
    I read it....the power of belief

    But the same could be said of the optimal diet...belief

    Sugar and the subing of fish for meat does cast doubt on the WW2 example so often used.
    heretk replied to jc3737's response:
    I agree, it is belief but a very rich one with lots of physical confirmations and corroborations. If it works its true. For me.
    anon615 replied to heretk's response:
    don't you think that all the people who got well on Pritikin's program can be attributed to more than just belief? The news program, 60 minutes, followed three of his dieters and even had them see doctors picked by the news program with an eye to debunking Pritikin. They were surprised at the results, the report of which put pritikin on the map.

    Pritikin's autopsy showed clean arteries. Atkins dieters have to rely on belief because the family did not allow an autopsy. But leaked medical results did show he had artery disease.

    Jimmy Moore of Livin La Vida Loca went on Atkins, lost weight, then a year and a half afterwards started to gain. A lot over several years. Now he is on a "nutritional ketosis" diet where he fasts quite a bit,takes numerous supplements including something called glycosolve for his blood sugar, eats 85% fat, 3% carbs and 12% protein, takes numerous blood tests and poo poos his high cholesterol numbers because his CT scan registered zero. Yet, speaking of belief, he has been given another book deal, is on the speaking circuit and doesn't seem to have made his followers question what he says. Now there's belief.

    What I do believe is that H is doing well on whatever he eats.

    heretk replied to anon615's response:
    No, not on whatever I eat. I wasn't doing well on the SAD nor on the low fat vegetarian diet.

    I think JM was overdoing meat as most Atkins dieters tend to do, because Atkins never warned people about excess protein. Atkins probably never realised He will most likely do fine on the high fat low protein nutrition, with supplements or without, unless something else is wrong with him.

    With the vegetarian diets like Pritikin's, we have now seen enough to conclude that it is fine for some but not all, probably 50% do fine and seem too liken it long term. The rest find it either intolerably unpallatable though not adverse, or impossible to maintain due to various adverse health effects. You can easily see this pattern in the mcd forum, in the health issues section. Similar is true for the low carb diets but probably not to the same extent, that is based on my partial observations, a fraction of people who would not or cannot tolerate Atkins diet tends to be much smaller than 50%, which can again be best attested by the stats from the low carb forums. Similarly there seems to be a dearth of adverse health effects reported in the low carb forums, especially striking is the lack of new heart attack cases. I cannot support the same observation from the low fat vegan forums, where new heart attack cases, uncontrolled t2 diabetes, as well as kidney and thyroid cases are not uncommonly reported.

    anon615 replied to heretk's response:
    Reading what people report on forums is hardly scientific proof of anything., You mentioned some of the problems just now. For instance, you said people on Atkins might have been eating too much protein and not enough fat. The same could be said for anyone on a low fat, high carb diet. Exactly what are they eating? Maybe people on the low carb diets are dead so they would hardly be reporting any lack of success. Maybe people on either diet are not accurately reporting what they eat. It takes a long time to build up arterial plaque. Neither diet can be said to be healthful if one is following it for only a couple of years. People eat the SAD and some die at 40 some die at 60 and some continue well into their nineties. Does the advanced age of some people who eat the SAD prove it is a healthful diet? AT least one low carb advocate died of a stroke in his early forties. Does this prove low carb is dangerous?

    Some on the McD group do report that they are not doing that well on the plan. Others report they switched from low carb to the McD plan and their cholesterol lowered, or they cured their rheumatoid arthritis or MS or they lost weight or any number of other improvements. Go on web md diabetes support group. Some report great results with low carb and others say that their sugars are rising or erratic and they have either been on meds or have had to add insulin and or increase meds.

    Everyone has to make a choice. You can't have it both ways.

    When I said whatever you are eating I naturally meant whatever your present diet is. It seems to totally agree with you.


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