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    nothing posted
    crow89 posted:
    Many of us that post in the lounge on Dr McDougall's message board read this message board.I tune in several times a week but recently I am disappointed to find nothing posted.How about something on the differences between Fuhrman and McDougall diets.We have covered this topic on our message board but I would like to see what you have to say.
    jc3737 responded:
    EG knows the Fuhrman diet better than anyone so I'll let him go into the differences.Dr.Fuhrman does not think low fat is important just high quality plant foods like greens,beans,berries,etc.
    engineerguy replied to jc3737's response:
    Hi Crow,

    Glad to make your acquaintance. I have met Jeff Novick, when he was a nutritionist at the Pritikin Center. He is a super guy. In fact, when I was not getting adequate results from the Pritikin diet, Jeff told me that I could try the Fuhrman diet. He also told me of Dr. Roy Walford Calorie restriction, just for information sake. I have been on Eat To Live for 6 years, very successfully. My IMT test has better results on the Fuhrman program, than Pritikin.

    I admire Dr. McDougall very much. He has brought health to many many people. I cheer him on, as he tries to change the medical world. I am hoping to hear results soon, of the Multiple Sclerosis study that Dr. McDougall is running.

    I am not sure of the differences between Pritikin and McDougall. I was lactose intolerant, so I did not eat (nonfat) dairy products, which Pritikin would allow. So, without dairy products, I might have been perfect on McDougall, while on the Pritikin diet.

    Please realize that this is not a competition. Both websites list many fabulous case histories. Also, some people post that they tried both diets, and do better on the one. This is true for both diets.

    jc has listed an important difference. Fuhrman has much more emphasis on vegetables, phytochemicals and antioxidants.

    Dr. Fuhrman believes an extremely low fat diet may increase risk of cardiac arrhythmia (not a heart attack, but ineffective heart beating due to incorrect rhythm) and essential tremor. So Fuhrman recommends 1 oz of nuts or seeds daily, minimum. I eat several oz, but I am very lean.

    Dr. Fuhrman also recommends a blood test for vitamin D, and supplements if needed, to achieve 35 to 55 ng/ml. I myself learned, at the age of 58, at the Pritikin Center, that sunlight is very healthy, to make vitamin D. I realized that I got zero sunlight. So then I ran 4 miles, 7 days a week, at noon, in Salt Lake City, which almost always has a blue sky. After 2 years, I at age 60, at the Pritikin center again, I got a bone density test. I almost didn't, thinking it was a waste of money. Anyway, my hip was at the bottom of osteopenia, almost to osteoporosis. My spine was at the top of osteopenia, almost to the normal range. Gee, great!

    I can only speculate as to why I did so poorly. Returning home, my physician tested testosterone. Normal. He tested blood vitamin D (after 1 hour of sunlight daily, 7 days a week for 2 years, in June). My blood level was 16 ng/ml, seriously deficient. OK, my body does not make vitamin D very well. Oh, and the whole time I was taking Pritikin vitamins, with 400 IU of vitamin D. So, if Dr. McDougall is right about sunlight is all we need. then my body is just wrong. An Oh, I got enough UV to give me cataracts. And enough UV to give my skin tags, which my dermatologist happily squirted with liquid nitrogen, which took about 30 seconds and cost my insurance $200. But I didn't get enough UV to made adequate vitamin D. And Oh, a blood level of 16 is well correlated with congestive heart failure, diabetes, osteoporosis, cancer, depression and much more, none of which ever improved anyone's quality of life. So I take 3000 IU of vitamin D, have a great blood level of about 45, and I only get occasional sunlight, wishing to avoid the attractive hole in the nose or ear, that some older people get, as things have to be removed.

    The cataracts went away over the next year, by the way, because I never went outside again, without dark wrap-around sunglasses.

    Dr. Fuhrman also recommends fewer meals. 2 or 3 meals a day. "Eat when you are hungry" is the advice, so maybe more meals when losing weight. I don't know if Dr. McDougall discusses this. I only understood this after a year on the Fuhrman diet. On the Pritikin diet, I always at 6 meals. So that's fascinating to me, that it's almost magical, that I am happy on even 2 meals on weekends.

    Wishing you the best!

    Best regards, EngineerGuy
    jc3737 replied to engineerguy's response:
    EG,Why do you think you developed osteopenia?...low vit D level?I have read Dr McDougall say ostopenia is caused by the acid load from meat and animal products taking calcium from bones to neutralize acid.....but you ate a total plant diet and still got ostopenia so there must be more to it than that.

    Crow,I think Dr Fuhrman is correct about vit D supplementation and low sodium,but I think Dr McDougall is right about starches like potatoes and rice being healthy.I think Dr Fuhrman is right about high nutrient foods like berries and greens being healthy.So,I blend the best of both diets.
    engineerguy replied to jc3737's response:
    Hi jc,

    I like your summary between Fuhrman and McDougall. I agree. I also think Fuhrman is right about needing 1 oz of nuts & seeds, for essential fats, as well as a tablespoon of ground flaxseed.

    So how did I get osteopenia? I can only assume I was seriously vitamin D deficient for most of my life. That can't help. Recall I was deficient in spite of taking 400 IU in a multi. Also, I was not athletic in my youth, so I likely did not have a good maximum bone density, at age 25 or so. The acid load of excess animal protein is certainly a factor, but not a big player in my case. I had a moderately high sodium diet for many years while on Pritikin, unfortunately, because I ate a lot of German sourdough bread from a mom & pop bakery, not realizing that it was absurdly high in sodium. I thought it was a good complex carbohydrate food. If a starch diet is THE answer, I was perfect.

    Who knows?

    Best regards, EngineerGuy
    jc3737 replied to engineerguy's response:
    EG,I also agree about limited nuts and a tablespoon of ground flaxseed being healthy.So does Dr Greger.Recently my digestion has improved and I have added some fruit and nuts to my diet.Prior to that I was only eating the flaxseed and one almond per day,and no fruit.
    anon43 replied to jc3737's response:
    I am wondering if there is anything in nuts that can't be had from other vegetable foods. One of doctor Greger's videos talks about improvement in erectile function by eating pistachios. The speculation was that it is probably the large amount of arginine in the pistachios that was responsible for this. However, I looked this up and cooked frozen spinach has about five times more arginine per 100 calorie portion than pistachios.

    jc3737 replied to anon43's response:
    Nuts in general have been linked to a number of what I call mechanical health benefits....meaning there is no comparison ....the nuts are not replacing another food like meat or dairy.

    Nuts show strong improvement in endothelial function.Another is improvement in prostate health(improved urine flow for those with enlarged prostate or prostate cancer).Pub Med is full of studies that point out the benefits of nuts and some can be attributed to them replacing unhealthy foods but most are just simple mechanical effects like improved blood flow or the two benefits mentioned above.

    I think Dr Greger is right about nuts being very long as they are not overdone.

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