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    sat fats vs polys
    anon43 posted:
    If someday I can remember where I found it I will post the article which says that sat fats are more healthful than polys because they do not compete with omega threes. The article was not a pro sat fat or anti carb article and the author did not sound like he had any ax to grind about low carb/ high carb. Wish I could find it. If it turns out that the omega three/ six ratio is very important as far as heart disease is concerned then maybe in the light of this people will have to rethink saturated fats. On the other hand, cardiologist Donald Miller takes two tablespoons of coconut oil every morning which makes it seem like an important health giving medicine instead of a safer oil to cook with.

    jc3737 responded:
    But then Dr Essee says an absolute "NO" to all oils and sat fat....especially for those with heart disease.

    And do you think omega 3s are really healthy as opposed to very low fat?....given your small intake of animal based omega 3s and the problems you had despite that weekly intake.

    I don't have any idea since the research is mixed and confusing.Some even claim problems with flax but I still take a tablespoon daily.
    anon43 replied to jc3737's response:
    I am under the impression that it is the ratio of 6/3 that is important. You read all over the place that eating fish and nuts will prevent arhythmias and sudden death but they certainly did not in my case. So you can't believe everything you read.

    Jeff Novick has explained in some cases that something might look like it improves a risk factor but --compared to what?
    For instance nuts improved risk factors but they compared nuts to a muffin made with sugar, flour etc. Olive oil lowers cholesterol compared to butter, but give olive oil to a no fat vegan and the cholesterol goes up.

    So while sat fat might be better than polys as far as competing with omega threes, that doesn't mean they will not clog arteries for some other reason nor that they will allow blood to flow easily through capillaries.

    engineerguy replied to anon43's response:
    Hi Dolores,

    Re: "You read all over the place that eating fish and nuts will prevent arrhythmias and sudden death but they certainly did not in my case."

    I believe you had a heart attack, not an arrhythmia.

    An arrhythmia is due to the heart beating in an incorrect rhythm, and not pumping blood effectively. An heart attack is caused by an artery blockage. Dr. Esselstyn had one patient die after 8 years, of an arrhythmia. Now, this patient had extensive heart muscle damage, and was given less that a year to live, prior to starting Esselstyn's diet. Clearly the patient did vastly better, on the Esselstyn diet. We will never know if nuts might have reduced the risk of that patient's arrhythmia.

    Dr Fuhrman believes a diet less than 10% fat is actually not healthy, especially in the long run. He has a lot of convincing references (1). So, this leaves us in a predicament. This is a conflict between the doctors we follow, and it is not entirely a friendly conflict.

    The answer I take is a compromise that satisfies all. We may take 1 tablespoon of ground flaxseed (not flaxseed oil), one capsule of fish oil or algae oil, and 1 ounce of mixed nuts & seeds, especially walnuts. This is low enough to satisfy Esselstyn (verbal at a Vegsource conference) and high enough to satisfy Fuhrman.

    When I was strict on Pritikin, I never ate nuts. Sometimes my heart would thud in my chest. Was it an arrhythmia? I have no idea. But it hardly ever happens any more.

    The brain has a whole lot of DHA in it. The body has important needs for essential fats. People vary in their ability to convert these fats. Older people, and men, do much less well converting fats, for example from flaxseed to DHA. Fuhrman feels he has had too many older patients who were on a low fat vegan diet, who developed essential tremor, which is irreversible.

    Best regards, EngineerGuy

    jc3737 replied to engineerguy's response:
    Dr Fuhrman says there is NO evidence that a low fat diet is healthy as opposed to a diet full of nutrients.He says the reason plants are healthy is because they are high nutrient and has nothing to do with being low fat.

    I wish I knew who was right but like EG I compromise somewhere between the two until I find out for sure,
    anon43 replied to engineerguy's response:
    Dr. Esselstyn actually recommends two tablespoons of flaxseed per day. This is what I have been adding to oatmeal and salad.
    I even have my doubts about this because fat is fat and this adds 8 grams in addition to the natural fats in fruits, vegetables starches and beans.

    Dr. Esselstyn at one time recommended calcium supplements which he no longer does. In his book he recommends one tablespoon of flaxseed meal each day but now it is two. (I e mailed him and asked) So I am assuming that depending on whatever studies he is reading he changes his mind. Which is a good reason to not take everything even the diet gurus one respects as gospel because tomorrow there could be something new. I trust they are honest enough to change their minds should the evidence prove otherwise.

    jc3737 replied to anon43's response:
    "So I am assuming that depending on whatever studies he is reading he changes his mind. Which is a good reason to not take everything even the diet gurus one respects as gospel because tomorrow there could be something new"

    I agree which is why I question and debate everything.

    The gurus I respect the most are the ones who make the most changes in their recommendations.One thing we know for sure is that science is constantly evolving and changing.The ones who hold fast to the things they said 10 yrs ago makes me suspicious of their intentions.

    On another point....many of the studies on nuts DO NOT involve comparisons with other foods but just measure direct mechanical effects of their ingestion.For example improved blood flow after consumption.Other studies that show increases in longevity may be realted to comparisons....if we eat nuts it MAY be that we eat less meat.Thats a big "MAY" becasue 10 years ago if I ate nuts (like many people)I did not eat one bit less meat....I just added nuts.
    anon43 replied to engineerguy's response:
    I had a heart attack and then went into v fib. Isn't that an arrhythmia?


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