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Crow89 What floats your boat?
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engineerguy posted:
Hi Crow,

Re: "However Heretics arguments are more convincing to me especially when combined with my own personal experience.Another thing that convinces me is the large number of posters I communicate with either directly or by PMs that have had nothing but failure with the McDougall WOE."


So, what floats your boat?


You are familiar with the positions we have posted in the past. I was interested to what what influences you most. When you think of the low carb vs plant based debate, what do you think of first and most convincingly?


Maybe with this guidance, I can offer a viewpoint that might be more interesting to you, for your consideration.


Or maybe I'll change my viewpoint, and be convinced that Heretic was right after all ! In reality, while it would take me a while to make such a tidal shift, I do wish to follow the best diet, rather than be defensive for my present beliefs.


Oh, and what does WOE stand for? ( LOL )


Best regards, EngineerGuy (Stacy)
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jc3737 responded:
Crow,If you have been following this board for a while you may remember about 5 yrs ago I tried Heretics diet and cut my carbs down to almost nothing and ate a high fay diet.I ate enough cheese,cream and butter to float a battleship....and tons of fatty meat....but my blood pressure went up from 120 to 165 within a month.But my digestion improved and I held my wt loss,so there were some advantages of the diet.Also my blood glucose went up which seems unlikely since i was getting no sugar or anything that should have raised it.This convinced me that Neal Barnard was right about intercellular lipids causing insulin not to work effectively....fat in the diet reaches the cells and gums up insulins ability to work.
 
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engineerguy replied to jc3737's response:
Hi jc,


thx for your interesting post, as always.


I hope you are able to figure out your GERD. Of course, we are all hoping to be able to make a helpful suggestion. So please be patient with us.


If I eat nuts by themselves, they can cause heartburn. It is better to eat them with food, preferably veggies.


I hate to be a downer, but Google barrett's esophagus. My sister-in-law just died of esophageal cancer. I learned a lot.


If you cannot fix it by figuring out what in the diet is causing it, or maybe a hiatal hernia, the best course might be to use Nexium or similar. My wife just had an endoscopy. The procedure is no problem.


Wishing the very best to you, jc.


Best regards, EngineerGuy (Stacy)
 
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jc3737 replied to engineerguy's response:
Yes,Thanks to Norman Robillard I have been able to solve the digestive/GERD issue.First I have to limit slow digesting carbs that often tend to ferment slowly in the gut....so I have to limit beans to one cup a day and brown rice to a half cup a day.....no bread or whole wheat or oatmeal.....but I can eat tons of potatoes(they are fast digesting and don't have time to ferment)....and I can eat all the greens and cruceferious vegetables I want.Most other vegetables(that contain sugar are off limits).

Slow digesting carbs are unhealthy for those with digestive issues because they digest slowly they have time to ferment where fast digesting carbs like potatoes don't have time to ferment and cause GERD.

So my GERD problems are solved.But every now and then I over do the brown rice or beans and have some GERD.....either minor or major depending on how much I overdo.I like beans abd brown rice and they are healthy in other ways so I often get carried away and go past a cup a day.Sometimes I get away with it and sometimes I don't.
 
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max9821 replied to jc3737's response:
I am having a hard time understanding the role that fermentation plays in GERD. Unless you are a ruminant, fermentation takes place in the colon not in the stomach. How can this cause GERD which I thought was stomach acid entering the esophagus? You are saying that food ferments in the stomach.

dolores
 
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jc3737 replied to max9821's response:
I have tested this theory on myself and it does work.about 5 yrs ago when I went on Heretics low carb diet I noriced my digestive problems went away completely.

Recently I have had success limiting slow digesting carbs like beans and brown rice and other high sugar foods like fruits, carrots,onions.and nuts.I can have some but have to limit.

This explains the theory.

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/gerdacid-reflux/gerd-treat-low-high-carb-diet/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A drmikenutritionblog %28The Blog of Michael R. Eades%2C M.D.%29
 
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engineerguy replied to jc3737's response:
Hi jc,

Excellent! Some illumination on the (very important) GERD issue. Thanks for the excellent link from Dr. Eades and Robillard.


My experience with lactose intolerance allows me to expand upon the ideas of Dr. Eades and Robillard.


The stomach's job is to digest the carbohydrates. If the carbohydrates get past the stomach, into the small and large intestine, then the bacteria there cause fermentation, resulting in a variety of symptoms that vary person to person. These symptoms may be gas, GERD, stomach ache, chest pain, cramps, and/or diarhhea.


Re: jc said "...but I can eat tons of potatoes(they are fast digesting and don't have time to ferment)."


So, my clarification goes like this: The potatoes
are fast digesting in the stomach. If the potatoes reached the small intestine without being digested in the stomach, they would ferment plenty fast and give you many many problems.


Lactose intolerance was my problem for 28 years, when I was the most sensitive lactose intolerant I have ever known. If I had any small amount of lactose (milk, cheese, ice cream, ice milk, etc etc, even a slice of bread with whey), I had stomach ache, and probably painful diarhhea 20 minutes after eating, and perhaps 24 hours later again.
I was missing the stomach enzyme lactase, which digests lactose. So, lactose, milk sugar, which is a carbohydrate, would go through the stomach without being digested, and go into the small intestine, where the bacteria there would FERMENT the lactose. This created lactic acid and other nasty stuff, which irritated the small intestine plenty, and the small intestine would move that stuff through, in a hurry. When the stool came out, it smelled awful, like fresh cut grass fermented in a black plastic bag, in the sunlight. The smell reminded me of what I imagined cow vomit would smell like.


How can someone know for sure whether they have lactose intolerance? Quite simply, take lactase pills with your first bite of dairy (Lactaid, Dairy Ease, Wallmart Equate Dairy Digestive Supplement). I took 4 pills, and then I could eat all the dairy I wanted, for about 5, maybe 10 minutes. No problem at all. 2 pills did nothing. The pills and the dairy had to mix in the stomach. If I ate Dairy and then had the pills 5 minutes later, I had problems, because some of the dairy would pass through the stomach to the small intestine, ahead of the pills, causing fermentation. If the pills work, and you can eat dairy for 5 minutes without discomfort, then you have lactose intolerance. If the pills do not make any difference, you do not have lactose intolerance. This is an important distinction to make, because there could be allergies, leaky gut syndrome, food sensitivities, etc, which are different issues.


Dolores and I have expressed surprise that a low carb diet cures GERD. I was surprised to read that Dr. Eades observes this in his practice. For many people, fatty food, coffee and alcohol all promote stomach acid and heartburn, which we are equating with GERD. But, jc, you have clearly established that the carbs do cause your GERD.


jc said "when I went on Heretics low carb diet I noticed my digestive problems went away completely." ".so I have to limit beans to one cup a day and brown rice to a half cup a day.....no bread or whole wheat or oatmeal"


There are many stomach enzymes, each addressing a certain food group. As we get older, our stomach enzymes levels may decrease, and each person may decrease different enzymes. As an example, different people find different foods gassy. Some beans, some broccoli, some dairy, etc etc. I found interesting info at http://www.beanogas.com/ Beano contains one enzyme.


continued...
 
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engineerguy replied to engineerguy's response:
continuing...


If Beano prevents the GERD, that proves that the problem is a missing stomach enzyme. That's important knowledge.
So, if it is a missing stomach enzyme, possibly my further experience may be helpful. After 28 years of being extremely sensitive lactose intolerant, I am no longer lactose intolerant, at all, to my amazement.


Let me know if Beano helps.


When did you become sensitive to carbs, or when did you start getting GERD? Just a guess, it was not all your life.


Best regards, EngineerGuy (Stacy)
 
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jc3737 replied to engineerguy's response:
EG,I'm not nearly as healthy now as I was 10 yrs ago when I was eating thje SAD.Then I looked young, strong and healthy with a full head of hair and no apparent problems.Thats what it looked like....but not on the inside.

My blood pressure was high and my blood glucose was rising and in the next few years angina was about to start up.So while I looked young,strong, healthy and felt good I was not healthy on the inside and it was about to maifest in symptoms.I started by eating many more vegetables but it was not until 2006 I started on the Ornish plant based diet.

About the time I started eating more vegetables I started having GERD.and when I went on the Ornish diet the GERD was there....but my blood pressure,blood sugar,and angina all dramatically improved.

So A plant based diet has been a mixed bag for me but all of the real serious issues are helped by the diet so its a must .Norman Robillard says that almost all GERD patients are cured by a low carb diet and from my experience I would say he is correct.

I found a way to stay on the plant based diet and stay GERD free by limiting the carbs with higher fermentation potential.Many that don't have digestive issues may be able to eat all the carbs they want(with high fermentation potential).You can probably eat several cups of brown rice and 3 cups of beans per day....I have to limit them.
 
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engineerguy replied to jc3737's response:
Hi jc,

I can eat one cup of beans, perhaps 2 (but significantly gassy with 2 cups of beans). My wife likes beans, so we can make music together. But I can eat unlimited oatmeal, brown rice, broccoli, shredded wheat, etc. I did notice heartburn with Kashi cereal, grape nuts sometimes.

"Fermentation potential" does not quite describe the problem. Any one of these carbs, if they get past the stomach and into the small intestine, including potatoes, will cause terrible distress. In that respect, every carb has the maximum "fermentation potential". The problem for lactose intolerance, is that the stomach lacks lactase, and does not digest lactose. What would be very valuable to understand is, is your problem the lack of the proper stomach enzymes to digest the carbs.

For diagnostic purposes, could you test whether Beano allows you eat carbs without GERD? I would try 4 pills, since you have a severe case, if Beano is helpful. Take all 4 Beano pills with the first bite of carbs, and then eat carbs for the next 5, maybe 10 minutes. After that, you'll need another batch of pills, I believe. That is, if Beano helps you.

I hope you don't mind answering these questions. My experience with this is unique, and may be helpful. I accidentally fell upon completely reversing severe lactose intolerance of 28 years duration.

Best regards, EngineerGuy (Stacy)
 
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jc3737 replied to engineerguy's response:
OK,Ill try the beano but it may take a while to remember,locate and try. I can eat a cup of beans daily with no problem but I really would like to eat 3 cups like I used to do about a year ago.Beans have a good bit of sugar in them which ups their fermentation potential as do nuts.I would like to also eat more nuts than I do now.....only 3 per day....one with each meal.

Norman Robillard's fermentation potential theory matches up with my experience.Take a look at his theory in detail.

I can eat all the potatoes I want with no problem.....the only drawback with that is it raises my triglycerides to 192....but my LDLis 81,glucose is 78 and total cholesterol is 151....

Thats from my blood work 2 weeks ago.
 
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jc3737 replied to jc3737's response:
It's the last last in this thread.


http://forums.webmd.com/3/diet-debate/forum/501/15


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