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    Heretk responded:
    Fascinating, I just noticed that link too but you were faster. :)

    The China Study: Fact or Fallacy?

    - The most important discovery of Denise Minger is some particular raw data dug out of original Collin Campbel's paper that he omitted from his popular book "The China Study"!

    Read about it here:

    Tuoli: China Mysterious Milk Drinkers

    (note: Tuoli pronounciation in the web available documents is "Toli", and location is described here )


    Heretk replied to Heretk's response:
    Their diet is extremely high in dairy, meat and animal fat (~46%). It is also medium carb NOT low carb like mine! Yet their health beat those of most other China counties that are near vegan (<= 1g of animal protein per day) as one can see on the graphs posted by Denise Minger.

    If Denise Minger article is true (I have no way at the moment of verifying it since I have no access to original TC Campbell's data) - then it would be really bad news for TC Campbell.

    Anyone throwing such pivotal (to the diet theory) data out could not considered a scientist. Such an action would constitute a scientific fraud!

    We have to be careful with accusatory conclusions until the evidence is independently reviewed and TC Campbell has a chance to respond to it.

    Stan (Heretic)
    jc3737 replied to Heretk's response:
    If Denise Minger's article is untrue she is wide open for a law suit.Scientists have long questioned Campbells take on the data and he is considered a bit of a joke to serious scientists.His fame is a type of pop fame and his ideas have been taken up by many who use it to show animal products are not healthy.

    Animal products may very well be unhealthy but Campbell's report does nothing to show this and serious vegans need to look for real data to support their case.Campbell is no help to them.
    nycjudy replied to jc3737's response:
    Even on the most basic level, this business of mixing the blood sample, always struck my admittedly unprofessional ear as strange. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
    dtms1 replied to Heretk's response:
    Anyone here who is capable of eating and exercising like a Tuoli herdsman, raise your hand.

    Heretk replied to dtms1's response:

    I would not assume that exercize had any significant impact altering the data unless I saw a proof. It is often assumed that exercize is a panaceum, that one can eat junk as long as exercize like a demon. I have seen examples to the contrary so this cannot be as simple as suggested. A converse may not be true either: saying that it was NOT their physically active lifestyle that made them healthy, would not imply that exercize is totally irrelevant.

    You have to be careful and wary about implying easy and catchy conclusions as if they were the truth. without actually seeing the data or testing it experimentally.


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