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    Nae83 posted:
    Finally I found a group that can maybe help me. I am 26 and I now weigh 83lbs. It is totally embarrassing. I love food I love to eat. I have always been small but I have never liked it. My mom who is a nurse says I need to eat every two hours. But is there something I can eat that has the calories that will make up for the missed snack? I work long hours so sometimes I cant eat every two hours.
    KennyCrox responded:
    Hi Nae,

    I feel for you Much of my life's was spent trying to gain weight. So, I have some understanding.

    Your mom right, you need to eat about every 2-3 hours. That works for everyone, it certainly did for me.

    You need to consume caloric dense foods/foods that have a lot of calories.

    Two of the best snacks that are calorie dense foods that are easy to carry around and eat are nuts and string cheeze.

    DeadManWalking56 responded:


    As a thin heart patient with very severe disease, I advise you not touch "calorie dense" fatty foods such as string cheese and lots of nuts, or any others. You don't need to trade a thin frame for heart disease.

    You need to eat nutrient dense foods, and try to improve your digestion and absorption of them. Another heart patient I know follows the dietary guidelines in the book Eat To Live, including using a blender to process some of his salads. There are people who "love to eat", but may not take the time to chew their food. That reduces the ability of the body to absorb nutrients. Eating for you may be having the food pass your mouth for taste, but not get digested very well.

    You need to eat enough, stimulate your appetite with some limited weight training, and digest food more thoroughly so you can gain weight more easily. A small meal of 4:1 carbs to protein within 90 minutes of exercise will go about 90% towards muscle growth and recovery. That means weight gain. When I heard of this, I was able to gain 14 pounds in a few months. I cut back on exercise, since I did too much and over rev'ed my metabolism, and always had this snack after my exercise. I went from a skinny 6'0" 145 lbs to a merely slim 159 lbs. I've never been anorexic. I exercised a normal amount an hour a day or so, but with weights, cut back to 2 sets of various lifts.

    Whole grain breads, potatoes, rice. Whole grain carbs will give you long term energy. Not too much meat. Unlimited fruit, some veggies. There is a cook book called "Rice and Spice" for flavorful cooking ideas.

    But the right amount and right type of exercise will stimulate gradual weight gain,and improve your energy levels. Then its eat right FOR YOUR HEALTH, and at the right times.

    You'll want to work on exercises that target your larger muscle groups, and multi-joint exercises are good. Bicep curls won't stimulate much. Target thigh, tush, and back, plus chest, shoulders and arms. A weak back will lead to easy fatigue and tiredness.

    KennyCrox responded:

    You have blurred vision. Your health condition scewes your view as we see in you opening sentence. "As a thin heart patient with very severe disease, I advise you..."

    Healthy individuals are not going to have problem with string cheeze and certainly not nuts.

    An individual wanting to gain weight needs to consume more calories, calorie dense food fulfill that need. Calorie dense foods are consumed to get one to their goal.

    Once the weight gain is obtained, there is no longer a need to consume calorie dense foods.

    Consuming a pre workout drink, as you mentioned, is a good idea. Also, consuming a beverage during and immediately after your workout enhances recovery, building muscle.

    Workout beverages that contain high glycemic index carbohydrates (simple sugars) combined with a protein that is quickly digested are the best. Thus, whey protein combined with a smiple sugar such as maltodextrin or dextrose are the most effective beverages.

    These beverage spike insulin levels. Insulin has been shown to be one of the greatest anabolic/muscle building hormones of the body. This is the ONLY time spiking one's insulin is productive. This is contraindicated for those with diabetes.

    The rest of the time, one needs to consume foods that are low glycemic index foods that do NOT spike insulin. That because when insulin levels are elevated outside the training zone, fat is being store on the body. Elevated insulin also blocks the body from buring fat.

    The beverage recommendations are from research by Exercise Physiologist, Dr John Ivy. Ivy does an excellent job of putting it in everyday English in his boosk, "Nutrient Timing" and "The Performance Zone".

    A good point is your recommendation of multi-joint/compound exercises.

    Kenny Croxdale
    DeadManWalking56 responded:
    Kenny, if you only knew.

    So kind of you to merely say I have blurred vision. I like to think my vision is finally very clear after 40 years following exercise physiology, and paying attention to my own athletic performance and those around me.

    I had about 2 ounces a day of nuts, plus peanut butter on whole wheat bread sandwiches, plus string cheese in the years leading up to my emergency triple bypass. Almost daily. Those were my morning and evening snacks. Plus a piece of fruit and a big glass of orange juice. I just burned off excess calories. No extra weight gain beyond 158 lbs.

    Cheese is almost entirely compressed dairy fat, and a little protein. Dairy fat is about 65% saturated, making it a very poor choice for cardiovascular health. Nuts have varying ratios of fats in them, but most calories are from fat, so the benefit of the other nutrients is muted by the fat content. Pistachios have the lowest fat content, and the best ratio of polyunsaturated to monounsaturated fats.

    I thought I was healthy. My doctor thought I was healthy. Everyone at work who knew I walked 54 flights of stairs twice daily, 4 times a week, thought I was healthy. My family who saw my workouts and regular yard work and never tire thought I was healthy. I had a series of incidents that forced a severe reduction or curtailment and then rehab to deal with an infected heart valve, a broken wrist, then a strained heart valve, over a 3 year period. I was at a good point in my rehab, doing multiple 10 minutes intervals on a Concept2 rowing machine just three weeks before I had emergency triple bypass surgery.

    How are simple sugars going to help build muscle ? My source regarding the 4:1 carb:protein snack after a workout is the McAardle exercise physiology text book. Multiple experiments have been done with training athletes, and the results compiled. Conclusion: the 4;1 snack within 90 minutes is highly effective. The whey protein and drink combination is a variation on that. But get the ratios wrong, and it is less effective.

    For a really good workout, you can't eat before. A person will throw up. If you can eat, "work out" and not throw up, it may not have been very challenging. I'm sure you will argue against that. I give myself 2 hours before, minimum.

    Some people store fat, some do not. You have heard of ectomorphs, the hard gainers ? I am one. Very hard for me to gain muscle. A few too many sets will still over rev my metabolism, even at 57. But you know what ? Minus the nuts, minus the cheese, on a very low fat diet for heart disease, I can still gain weight. I put back on my 10 lbs and maintained my body fat at about 14%. I get about 1,000 - 1,500 less calories a day than I used to. I am less active, due to the heart disease, but I still train, otherwise the weight would come back off.

    After the bypass surgery, I was back at 148 lbs again. I got my weight back up to 158 on a regular workout plan and the snack suggestions I mentioned. I don't have blurred vision. I have really, really messed up arteries. It takes decades to get them this messed up. I did it in less than the usual number, and most folks with arteries like mine are long dead.

    People should reconsider nutrient density over caloric density, it is much better for their long term health. Eat slower, chew their food. Good digestion to absorb all nutrients requires well broken up food, not food swallowed in chunks. If you could weigh the same on 2/3 the food, but more nutrient dense from fruits and veggies, would you ? Strangely, that is what I am doing.

    I do have some fat in my diet. Dried fruit, soy nuts, or pistachios covered in dark chocolate. All high in anti-oxidants, plus some protein,and protect my arteries at the same time.

    If you knew you could need bypass surgery in 10 years, but could avoid it and never need it by changing your diet, would you ? I did not get the choice. You get the warning. Think about it.

    KennyCrox responded:

    You lack knowledge and experience in this area. You have some degree of understanding in regard some aspects of training but the majority of you knowledge is from book and articles.

    I commend you for reading. The only reading the majority of athletes do is from books that contain more pictures than words. Working with ahtletes is someone like working wtih elementary school children.

    What athlete do posses is hands on experience, something you lack. You have some hand on experience but not enough to understand the whole picture. You are getting more of a snapshot view.

    We've been throught the saturated fat issue. No need to bludgeon that subject to death again.

    Let break thing down for you, once more...repetition is a key to learning.

    A maltodextrin or dextrose (simple sugar) combined with a quickly digest protein (whey protein) stiumlate the release of insulin. Insulin (for those knowledgeable) is one of the most anabolic (muscle building) hormones.

    Spiking insulin increase your recovery. That means you heal faster and become stronger. Insulin does is transports nutrients into the muscle cell.

    The 4:1 ratio of carbohydrates to protein is correct. What is also correct is the use of a high glycemic index carbodhyrate (see information on insulin above).

    Chocolate milk will work. Louise and I posted information on that in responding to another subject. Louise gave the webmd site on chocolate, I listed another.

    While milk has a fairly low glycemic index. Research show that it has a high insulin index. The insulin index is fairly new. The bottom line is that chocolate milk with it simple sugar creates the insulin response, just not to the same extent as maltodextrin or dextrose.

    I stated you should have beverage before your workout, during and after. I never stated you should eat before your workout. So, you are twisting information or you don't undersand what was stated.

    Dr John Ivy in his book, The Performance Zone, provides a rule on before, during and after beverages. "30W15"

    "30"-- minutes before a workout drink the beverage

    "W" --sip a workout drink during you workout.

    "15" --consume a final beverage within 15 minutes of finishing your workout.

    Ivy's "Performance Zone" and "Nutrient Timing" will help you understand this more.

    I am an ectomorph, as well. At 5'8" I once weight 148 lbs. With a lot of work and diet, I eventually gained up to 210 lbs. At 210 lbs, I was a bit too heavy. I dropped down to 181 lbs. Then I dropped down to165 lbs (too light).

    I am currently at 194 lbs. (nice weight for me) I have learned how to manipulate my weight through training and diet. So, I have experience in this area, especially with ectomorphs.

    One good point you make is that too much training for ectormorphs. A little training goes a long way for an ectomorph.

    I am constantly amazed at how everyone one to blame one thing for the problems. It is never that simple. Diet may have contributed to your dilema but genetics played a role, as well.

    Let go back to what I posted earlier that you evidently missed. "Once the weight gain is obtained, there is no longer a need to consume calorie dense foods. " Nothing in that statement indicates that I advocate eating calorie densse food forever. Does it?

    This is an interesting statement. "If you knew you could need bypass surgery in 10 years, but could avoid it and never need it by changing your diet, would you ?"

    DMW, if I could find out the right winning lottery number before the drawing rather than after the drawing would I like to get those numbers?

    The problems is that no one knows.

    Kenny Croxdale
    DeadManWalking56 responded:

    I am prying more thorough information from you. Cool. You made me laugh. Also cool.

    WebMD is not the same as Yahoo! Answers. Not just a bunch of yahoos here.

    I am not just a "book learning" kind of guy. I competed in heavyweight and lightweight rowing at the college level. You don't get many 145 lb athletes in competitive or winning boats in either category, especially heavyweight. Average weight there is about 200 lbs. I taught school for 7 years Math, not P.E., and coached at the high school level for 4 years.

    I did not think about the athletes "being like elementary school kids" thing. You are right. Tell them exactly what to do, nothing else, or they will get confused, and get it wrong.

    I ran into a lot of "coaches" whose level of ignorance was astounding. Others would tolerate ignorance, alcoholism, and bullying among their own athletes. Getting good information from them was highly unlikely, since they had worked with stone age coaches like themselves and all they knew was what their coaches told them. They either ruined or drove off good athletes who were willing to work hard but were not as physically gifted in size. I both saw it, and was a victim of it.

    Sounds like I should add your reading list to what I have, and know more, since I enjoy learning good accurate information.

    Do you get my point about nutrient density and eating better ? I drank almost a half gallon of milk a day in college. That is a lot of saturated fat. With the intensity of my workouts twice a day for most of 4 years, I likely started myself on the road to bypass surgery way back then. When I was working on improving my cardio and strength, and might have also been throwing in reduction in blood flow to my heart. Doctors found significant blockages in autopsies of very young soldiers who died in the Korean War.

    I have read very extensively on heart disease, diet, training and exercise intensity. I either get better, or worse. If I don't keep training, the new muscle mass falls back off in a couple months, and my strength with it. Not many folks at my combination of tipping points.

    I still play basketball and volleyball, badminton, want to run again, do long biking, hiking. As I get stronger, things get easier.

    Having some high anti-oxidant fruit is like lubricating an engine or warming up for a workout. You would not skip either one. But in this case it can prevent oxidation of the fat in the calorie dense foods, and keep it from enriching blockages in arteries. Building muscle, you don't want to build blockages, too. Keeping an eye on heart rate during training sessions can prevent excessive blood pressure, which can put tiny tears in blood vessels, which is where blockages begin.

    Let's learn from each other.

    I do appreciate your knowledge and desire to teach us. Thank You. I will try some of your recommendations. Maybe 165 or 170 lbs is in my future.
    KennyCrox responded:

    You were a rower? Wow! I use have a Concept II. I was fairly good on it.

    Unfortunately, that that doesn't transfer to the water. I suck at kayaking.

    I've been powerlifting for 42 years. I lifted in my first meet in 1969. I enjoy the sport and those in the sport.

    However, it doesn't take much to be considered a genius in powerlifting. Lifters who can string enough words together are well on their way to being considered a genius.

    Coaches aren't much better when it comes to strength training. Most football, basketball, etc coaches are also the strength coach for their sports.

    No one can be an expert in every field. Plus, the coaches are overloaded.

    However, one of the primary problems with football, basketball, etc coaches is their egos. They believe they know what they do with their kids in the weight room is right. They are reluctant to seek advice or take it when it offered.

    I am a proponet of eating vegetables and fruits of color. Those foods are almost high in fiber, low in calories and are loaded with anti oxidents.

    However, when it comes to gaining weight or losing weight, it is for the most part, simple math. To gain weight you need to consume more calories or to lose weight, eat fewer calories.

    As Tom Morris, a college exercise physiologist instructor stated, "To gain weight, start you meal with dessert and work backwards". By the Morris meant, eat calorie dense foods.

    The American College of Sports Medicine is one of the top two personal training organizations. They state that to gain weight, one need to consume at least 500 kcal a day. They do not specify where those calories come from.

    As the research shows, ingesting high glycemic index foods before, during and after a workout spikes insulin levels. Insulin is one of the most anabolic hormones of the the body. Insulin also shuttles nutrients to the muscle cell which enhances recovery.

    As you know, insulin has a dark side. When you insulin levels are spiked outside a lot of negative things take place.

    One of the negatives is that insulin blocks body fat from being burned. What also occurs when insulin levels are elevates is that fat is being stored in the body.

    As Jay Robb (nutritionist) said, "Insulin is a fat maker. Glucagon is a fat taker."

    Glucagon allows the body to burn body fat.

    Glucagon is one of the counter hormones to insulin. Glucagon and Insulin are on a see saw. Thus, when insuline goes up, glucaton goes down. When insulin is down, glucagon is up.

    The ONLY time you want insulin up is in your workout zone (diabetics are an exception). The rest of the time, you want insulin in "it cage".

    In regard to, "I don't keep training, the new muscle mass falls back off in a couple months, and my strength with it." That is true for everyone.

    I am a proponet of anti-oxidents. However, one of the interesting things that has come out is that no anti-oxidents should be taken around workouts. Data indicates that when anti-oxidents are ingested in the workout zone, increased muscle damage and delayed recovery occurs.

    It appears that the anti-oxident slow down the body's natural healing process. Thus, the timing of taking anti-oxidents is one of the keys to progress.

    I understand that you condition makes things a lot hard and different for you. Everyone has to experiments a little to find out what works. "Research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing." Einstein.

    However, the majority of individuals are more alike than different. What works for one usually will work for another, on the grand scale.

    I promote understanding the basic concepts of how something works. Once an individual understand the basic concepts, they are better able to write thier own program.

    "Methods change but principles remain the same." Cosgrove

    I am interested in learning, as well.

    Kenny Croxdale
    DeadManWalking56 responded:

    "DMW: You were a rower? Wow! I use have a Concept II. I was fairly good on it.

    Unfortunately, that that doesn't transfer to the water. I suck at kayaking. "

    Kenny: Personally I prefer the term oarsman. I made boats move. Fast. Technique I mastered, and tried to teach to others. Both rowing and kayaking are critical technique sports involving high strength and endurance. Both are very different in technique. You discovered it takes technique to get strength to the water, or that without it, you can't.

    It could be the critical muscles used on the kayak you had not developed, and mistook that for a technique problem. Rowing, biceps are minimally important since one rows palms down. Rowing, bench row and squat strength are keys to power.

    If you used the Concept 2, then you know at top levels, one is burning calories for short periods at rates in excess of 2200 per hour. Its a very tough sport.


    Very interesting about the anti-oxidants and training. I'll read more about it.

    A few months ago I tried adding 4 nuts in the evening to my diet. My arteries are so sensitive, I then had chest pain during exercise for the first time in three years, and it would not go away for a month after I stopped the nut intake. But I think if I have the nuts with some high anti-oxidant fruit juice, or a few berries, I'll have no pain. I work to avoid any oxidized LDL in my blood stream.

    I've managed to gain muscle even while managing my anti-oxidants and low fat intake. But topping out at 159. You've given me a few more ideas to work with.

    KennyCrox responded:

    The timing anti-oxidents is interesting. Like most, I included it in my workout beverages. Now I don't.

    There doesn't seem to be much information on it, but there is some.

    Antioxidants Do Not Prevent Postexercise Peroxidation and May Delay Muscle Recovery Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise: September 2009 - Volume 41 - Issue 9 - pp 1752-1760

    "AOX supplementation does not offer protection against exercise-induced lipid peroxidation and inflammation and may hinder the recovery of muscle damage."

    The Top 10 Post Workout Nutrition Myths David Barr

    "This groundbreaking research by Childs and buddies (2001) examined the impact of post workout antioxidant supplementation on subsequent muscle damage and healing."

    "...the microtrauma experienced by the muscle cells was exacerbated by the antioxidants. With this, the greater the damage, the more time it takes to repair."

    Whoever said, "Timing is everything" was right. Part of this equation is Circadian Rhythm, you 24 hour clock. You are probably familiar with it.

    Circadian Rhythm is easily determined by you body temparature. It only fluctuates minutely.

    Howev er, when you body temperature at it highest, you perform you best at work, during exercise, etc.

    High Octane Training Q and A for high-performance athletes by Charlie Francis

    "The East Germans understood the role of additional heat when an extensive review of world record performances revealed how often the record setter was at the early stages of a cold and running a fever when the record was set. (Later into the cold, the adverse effects outweigh the benefits, of course.)"

    "This led the East Germans to experiment with de-natured viruses to generate a slight fever immediately prior to a world record attempt!"

    It appears that may carries over to individuals who take medication. Better response from certain medications, maybe all, are at the highest part of your Circadian Rhythm, when your body temperature it highest range of normal.

    Kenny Croxdale
    DeadManWalking56 responded:

    That's a lot of reading to get to. But muscle related, not so much artery related.

    The virus thing may not be necessary, just a very good warm-up. Back in college, we had a beast of a rowing ergometer. We never did more than 3 minute pieces, and it was start hard, and try to hold on as one faded. That last 20 seconds was slow and painful as you tried to hold power. The sweep second hand was agonizingly slow. 450 rpm avg for 3 minutes, I still remember. One day, alone in the erg room I decided to do a 10 minute piece at my 3 minute average. It was easy. I waited 5 minutes or so, then loaded up the brake on it to max, for a 250 lb person's load, me at 145 lbs. I cranked off a 1 minute piece at an unheard of rate of 670 rpm, constant the whole way. A couple guys had come in as I started it, and saw the results. They tried to pull the same load, and couldn't. They had not warmed up. They saw my results, and accused me of somehow greasing the flywheel.

    Most people just don't warm up enough before an event. The warmup really preps the heart as much or more than the other muscles.

    An article I ran across a few years ago which studied the 80% of max heart rate number as anaerobic threshold. It turned out to be totally bogus. Using gas exchange, the researcher took about 30 random exercisers in awide variety of ages, including 2 very good athletes, and had each one run at 80% of their age max heart rates. The majority were in severe oxygen debt well below 80% of their age estimated max heart rate, and the two good athletes were estimated to be 5% or more below their AT. AT is entirely fitness related and unique per person.

    Further, I think in that article, since CO2 is acidic, that means that aerobic exercise above the AT for any significant period is potentially damaging to arteries, as much as cigarette smoking. So people training and having to breathe hard continuously, the old "huffing and puffing", is not good for people. With my heart disease and other heart disorders, I've been careful to keep by breathing rate easy at all times. That does not mean a low heart rate. I've played basketball and had mine up to 170 bpm for 10 minutes or more, breathing effortlessly. That is over 100% of my age maximum. My nephew was gasping for air and needed a break. Prior to reading the article, and bypass surgery, I did overwork and get myself in that huffing and puffing state, which may have contributed to my artery disease.

    I don't lift heavy enough to get sore, but I do significant aerobic exercise which helps fight inflammation. As a patient with severe artery problems, I am supposed to avoid that so that it does not make my artery disease worse. My arms see some heavy work, but my legs don't.

    I think anti-oxidants need to be taken before or with fatty foods, so that any increase in LDL remains unoxidized. I had some Korean barbecue at lunch Tuesday, and did not notice the fat in it at first. When I did , I carefully cut it off. I also took a spray of NitroQuick after lunch, and had some blueberries, cranberries, and pomegranate arils after lunch at my desk. In the past, with that much fat in a meal, I was headed for significant chest pain within hours. None, this time.

    There are multiple issues in training, some contrary to others. Some give immediate benefits, some may not show effects for a long time.

    More anti-oxidants slows aging and prevents arterial damage, even though it may also slow muscle recovery. But light aerobic exercise increases circulation, which speeds muscle recovery and tissue repair.

    My first year rowing, I doubled my strength, but did not gain a pound. And I was rarely sore. I thought it a very strange year.
    KennyCrox responded:

    The majority of individuals in a gym usually turn their warm up into a full blow workout. They perform so many warm up sets that by the time they get to their top set, they've expended their strength and energy.

    The over kill of a warm up is more of an emotional response than a physcial need. I understand that their emotional need, needs to be addressed. With that in mind, we scale back on their warm enough to allow them to hit their top set in the weight room while fulfilling their emotional need.

    The goal of a warm up is to perform the minimal amount to get you there physically and emotionally.

    For that matter, the amount of time in a "cool down" is quesionable.

    "Is the Exercise Cool-Down Really Necessary?"

    "Dr Hirofumi Tanaka (exercise physiologist at the University of Texas)...there is pretty much no science behind the cool-down advice."

    "The cool-down, Dr. Tanaka said, "is an understudied topic."

    "Everyone thinks it's an established fact,"

    "It's not even clear what a cool-down is supposed to be."

    "The old "huffing and puffing" is good for individuals. It exercises your heart. lungs, etc.

    Anyone who drives their heart rate about 85% is going to increase their breathing hard. Increased breathing follows increased heart rate.

    So, while you condition does not allow you to do that, it a good thing for healthy individuals.

    Light aerobic exercise does help with recovery and has some health benefits. However, health individuals need to exert themselfs and increase the intensity at times. Doing so provides health benefits beyond that of light aerobics.

    Training information (like most subjects) can be controversial. As an example, strenght increase one's power and speed.

    However, if one continues to ONLY train strength, strength will continue to increase but power and speed with drop down. So, there is some truth to the old addage, "Lifting weights will make you muscle bound."

    The key is knowing the rules and knowing to to break them to elicit a greater training effect.

    I am a big proponent of anti-oxidents. However, their use in the training zone is questionalbe. The reseach indicates they cause a delay in recovery time. I provide you with that information.

    In regard to your first year of rowing. A novice in any field will dramaticly increase strength, power, and speed their first year. Strength gains initially come via the central nervous system rather than from weight gain/hypertrophy.

    Sorness, Delayed Onset of Muscle Sorness (DOMS) comes more for eccentric movements. There isn't much/if any eccentric movement in rowing. Thus, your rarely being sore.

    Kenny Croxdale
    DeadManWalking56 responded:
    Warm-up 6-10 minutes. Cooldown again 6-10 minutes. Defined. Some people just move from light sets to heavier sets, that's still a warm-up.

    Psychological need to warm-up ? Strikes me as absurd. Would you go straight to your maximum lifting weights with no warm-up ?

    The warm-up helps oxygenate the HEART and expand its blood supply, so that it is more primed to supply the skeletal muscles a higher than normal oxygen supply on demand. Circulation to other systems is gradually reduced so more is available to the muscles.

    In the cooldown, ones does a favor to the heart. A higher than normal percent of the blood is out in skeletal muscles. How do you think that great pump occurs ? Air ? No, increased blood flow. Why does it go away afterwards ? It returns to other organ systems. If you don't do some cooldown, and just sit, then you've got the heart still pumping blood to and from muscles no longer in use, rather than the other bodily systems. The cooldown helps it switch back more gradually.

    A cooldown also enhances muscle recovery since as one does the cooldown, there is additional circulation to the active muscles, even if it is slower.

    In my less than humble opinion, if you don't use either warm-up or cooldown, you have prevented yourself from reaching your maximum potential, or at least displaying it. My example of the "magic" erg session with max load, which I had also tried without a warm-up previously, and could barely move, is the classic example. Nothing psychological about it. I was primed, and did a one minute interval every guy on the team was amazed at, and could not equal. They did not do similar warm-ups.
    DeadManWalking56 responded:
    85% heart rate always breathing hard ? Hard breathing is a sign of insufficient oxygen supply, pure and simple. Sure people do it, but that does not mean they should, nor need to. Its a sign of excess training.

    You did not read everything I wrote.

    I'm 57. My computed max heart rate is 163. I have pushed my fitness level, even with serious heart disease, so that I can play basketball with my heart rate at 170, and staying at 170, and I am not breathing hard or fast. I'm just playing, well.

    Your Math is not very good if t you think 170/163 = 85% . Its in excess of 105%. That should have me gasping for air in , oh, about 30 seconds. Not checking my heart rate monitor as I play.

    I really don't care about one doctor's study. People set about "proving" what they think works. My cardiologist thought I was bedridden before my surgery, and gave me no hope to be active 4 years later.

    Did you ever see Dennis Rodman play basketball ? He kept an exercycle on the arena floor so he could be warmed-up before he returned to the game. Crazy, or crazy like a fox ?
    KennyCrox responded:

    I never stated not to do any warm up, did I? I stated to do the minimal amount to preserve your energy and strength.

    Some individuals have a psychological need for multipled warm up weight sets. By that I mean there is no physilogical need, it more in their head.

    A friend of mine, talks a lot of warm up sets prior to hitting his top set. What we did was cut down on his warm up reps in each set, allowing him to get a feel for the weight. That allows him to placate his psychological need while not physcially depeteing himself.

    I don't take many warm up sets. I excel with liimited warm up sets. Much like you erg session, many are amazed at my strength levels with my limited number of warm up sets.

    I NEVER stated going to you maximum weight with no warm up.

    With weight training, I suspect taking a final good pump set that involves the muscles you've worked in your training session does "take out the trash" so to speak.

    However, a cool down does not appear to be necessary. The information you presented appears to be based on you logic, which may or may not be right.

    I presented you with research data on the cool down. I don't think I am out of line in requesting you do the same.

    You limit your performance with too many warm ups just as much as if with too few. Some individual need fewer and some more warm ups.

    Your erg session can hardly be considered conclusive scientific evidence. Science is based on large number as well as other criteria.

    You appear to believe that whatever works or does not work for you should be applied to everyone else. That not true.

    Kenny Croxdale

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