Hello Everyone. My name is Scott & I recently introduced myself with my first post last week when I asked if anyone experienced reduced FM pain from trying manual therapies like SCS, Myofascial Release, & other gentle similar treatments. For those who may not have read that post, I don't suffer from FM myself, but have recently met a friend, Jennifer, who was diagnosed with FM about 1 1/2 years ago. I have however experienced cluster headaches for the first time about 7 years ago or so & had never even heard of that type of headache before. I recall scouring the internet searching for some remedy because the meds they tried on me never helped & produced awful side affects! It wasn't long after I began to search for remedies to at least help reduce the tremendous pain that cluster headaches produce that I became discouraged in believing that there was anything that would help. Jennifer tried searching the internet too when first diagnosed with FM & like me, became discouraged when she couldn't find anything so she gave up. Fortunately for me, cluster headaches only last up to a few hours, then after a couple months (typically) go into remission for a few months before they rear their ugly head again! Anyhow, on to the point of this post - sorry for rambling a bit!
I have spent some time, both here & other sites, to see what benefits, if any, those who suffer from FM/MPS pain have had when attempting to increase their body's pH level through nutrition. I'm happy to report that I've found some who have noticed definite FM pain reduction when elevating their body's pH levels!
That being said, I would like to ask everyone who reads this & who has actually measured their body pH over time & were successful in raising their body's pH closer to neutral (7.0), did you notice any significant/moderate/minimal FM/MPS pain reduction?
I discovered a post here about 4 years ago by user 'poprox2nv' who lost his career of being a musician (drummer I think) to FM because his pain just became too intolerable to continue in that field. In his post he mentioned having a 'flare' that lasted couple weeks & a friend who suggested he simply try to raise his pH through drinking alkalinized water. His friend had a machine of which 'poprox2nv' drank 3/4 gallon of 9.5 pH water from for about 2 weeks & he said he honestly noticed an overall improvement & felt better so he posted a poll here, again, about 4 years ago. Unfortunately, there were only a few responses, but the very last one, about 1 year ago from user 'momof4kids' is very encouraging! Here's the link:
Here's another link that I found VERY interesting on acidosis in general, however, is quite long! Might take 30 mins to get through, but, was one of the most valuable articles that I've EVER READ IN MY ENTIRE LIFE & mentions helping FM pain specifically about midway or so into the article iteself. The article is titled: The Relationship Between Body pH and Disease (and other facts you're not supposed to know). Here's the link if you care to read it:
I'm aware that each of our bodies are unique & that raising our pH level may be easier said than done, however, unlike getting Vit-D levels checked, anyone can easily measure their own pH level using simple paper test strips & their own urine each morning.
Hello Scott....MiMi in NC. I was reading your post and I am interested in knowing if you have tried apple cider vinegar yet?
I keep reading about this and vinegar can do so many interesting things for us. I have not read your link yet but will try to get to it today.
IN GOD WE TRUST....MAY GOD BLESS AND GUIDE AMERICA....
Thanks for your Reply!
I've answered you before and assumed you were a spouse or a partner. I understand now you are just friends with this person. She is very fortunate! Many people post here about how non supportive their family is. It means a lot to us to see a non-fmer take so much interest. The world in general ignores or belittles us.
I have been seeing a naturopath recently. She is great because she's not anti-Western medicine. She seeks to work with it. Plus, she super scientific and highly educated. While people with FM do not usually test positive for the inflammation tests that traditional doctors give, I believe we may suffer a more system wide inflammation. So our joints may not be swollen, but we have inflammation in that our bodies are constantly fighting something. My doctor, with some tests, believes I have pretty significant inflammation. I think I may have unidentified food allergies.
So, back on track to your question, my doctor suggested that I try the anti-inflammation diet. Upon research, this diet tries to eliminate, among other things, alkalizing foods. The thought is that some people are sensitive to when their bodies pH is off and avoiding foods that cause that can help. Oddly enough, these are night shade vegetables, like tomatoes, potatoes,eggplant, and bell peppers. I love all those! But my doctor said to give it a try for 3-6 weeks, then eat one of those things and monitor the pain.
I haven't been able to do a strict diet right now. There is some stress in my life that makes something like that a little to hard, realistically. I do try to eat healthy, however, as much as I can.
I have heard others speak about pH levels and health benefits. It's definitely something in the more naturopathic world. My insurance thankfully covers my doctor the same as any other doctor. I wonder if your friend's insurance would allow her to even have a consult with a naturopath. It is the first doctor I have felt like is there to actually help me feel better. I've had other good doctors, but they were just as helpless as me. My last doctor often admitted there was nothing to do to help me.
I wonder if you have come across "adrenal fatigue" in your research. It is kind of controversial and many people view it as a trendy diagnosis. I had the testing done for it, and my levels came back very low. My doctor has me on some things for it and I do feel better. It's not extreme changes and I'm not on the level of a non-FMer, but the energy I do have lasts a few more hours in the day.
Thanks again for taking such an active role. It's also very nice of you to post links.
Good morning MiMi, sorry it took me so long to reply. I have not tried to use apple cider vinegar myself nor do I know anyone personally who has tried it either, however, I have read about it's many successful uses to treat various conditions. Did you happen to read my reply a few days ago to that 4 year old post involving Dr. P regarding 'slow emptying stomach' that An_257482 recently resurrected to see if anyone had found any 'Wonder Fix' to help this condition in the past 4 years? I shared this portion of that long article that I posted above titled: The Relationship Between Body pH and Disease. Have you had a chance to read that article yet, & if so, what were your thoughts on it? I'm curious what you think. Anyhow, here's what I shared from that article for An_257482 to try for her stomach issues using apple cider vinegar:
The next time that you experience indigestion problems, try the experiment of giving your stomach the acid that it needs. Take one tablespoon of apple cider vinegar, and optionally follow it with a glass of water. Your stomach churning and pain will subside within minutes, unless the problem is ulcers. The result is likely to amaze you, especially if you have been suckered for years by antacid advertisers and doctors.
Almost everything you have been told about heartburn, indigestion, and common stomach ailments is a lie. Indigestion is not caused by excess acid in the stomach, nor is acid reflux. In fact, the worst treatment for either is taking an antacid, whether prescribed or not. Being acidic is the natural, healthy state of the stomach, so there is no such thing as an excess of acid or acid build-up in regards to the stomach. It is like claiming that the lungs suffer from excess oxygen.[br>[br>How Antacids Destroy Health[br>"There are two main consequences of low stomach acid: 1. You become protein malnourished. When your stomach acid is low, you are not able to digest protein. Improper digestion of protein creates toxins in your intestines that can set the stage for illness and disease. Improper digestion of protein also creates acidic blood, since protein is by nature acidic. 2. You become mineral deficient. As your blood becomes more acidic, it will look for minerals from anywhere in your body, in order to get your blood to its more ideal alkaline state. Acidic blood robs your body of minerals, even taking minerals from your bones (which is important to know if you want to prevent osteoporosis).[br>"Low stomach acid eventually creates a vicious cycle: low stomach acid = low minerals = acidic blood. This cycle continues because acidic blood further creates low minerals and low stomach acid. Once this vicious cycle has started, there is a cascade of consequences: You could eat plenty of protein and still be protein malnourished. This raises cortisol levels [stress hormones>, thereby raising your blood glucose (blood sugar levels). Elevated cortisol adversely affects your behavior and temperament. Eventually, your adrenals become depleted (adrenal fatigue) and DHEA, the youth hormone, is suppressed, leading to premature aging. Low DHEA and high cortisol affect your brain and behavior, but that's not all. The vicious cycle of low stomach acid affects your inner ecosystem too. Low stomach acid can lead to more bad guys (pathogenic bacteria, candida and viruses) than good guys (healthy microflora), thus lowering your immunity.[br>"Here are some of the common symptoms and disorders caused by low stomach acid: bloating, belching, and flatulence immediately after meals, heartburn (often thought to be caused by too much stomach acid), indigestion, diarrhea, or constipation, undigested food in stools, acne, rectal itching, chronic candida, hair loss in women, multiple food allergies, iron deficiency, weak, peeling, or cracked fingernails, chronic fatigue, adrenal fatigue, dry skin, various 'autoimmune'..diseases."[br>-- Donna Gates (bodyecology.com)
There is more I want to say but am out of characters now so will wrap this up here
Hello again MiMi, I promise to keep this response shorter! Anyhow, I become interested in our body pH about 10 months ago when I began reading about how nearly all disease can not survive in an oxygen-rich, alkaline environment. If you have had the chance to read that long article to the link I posted in the beginning of this thread/post, you may recall reading that our typically acidic bodies cannot retain enough oxygen to function properly or fight infections. When a body reaches a pH level of 7.4 cancers become dormant and at 7.6 all cancers die rapidly, along with every type of invader!
Shortly after gaining interest in the subject of our body's pH I came upon a book that was a very interesting & easy read called 'The Acid Alkaline Food Guide: A Quick Reference to Foods & Their Effect on pH Levels' written by Dr. Susan E. Brown and Larry Trivieri, Jr. The first ~1/3rd of the book explains how the body maintains pH levels and is very interesting while the remainder of the book is essentially comprised of a well organized listing of tables of most food, beverages, etc. depicting the alkaline/acid forming levels of each. As I'm sure you/others may realize already, the actual acid/alkaline content of food/drink is meaningless, but how each thing we eat/drink affects our bodies after digested/metabolized is what's important. Below is an interesting read I found from Dr. Susan E. Brown that you/others may enjoy:
Many of the body's organs and systems, particularly the kidneys and lungs, play important roles in maintaining proper pH. The lungs excrete acids as carbon dioxide, and they do this without much effort or input from us — diet, for example, plays no direct role in the lungs' excretion of volatile acids. The kidneys' ability and need to excrete acids, however, is directly influenced by what we eat. On a balanced, whole foods diet that includes ample amounts of fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds, the body is provided with the anonic (negatively-charged) alkaline mineral salts it needs for buffering excess acids (positively charged ions). Under these ideal circumstances, the kidneys are able to maintain the net acid-alkaline balance in proper proportion. An imbalanced diet high in animal protein, refined carbohydrates, caffeine, and processed foods, however, can force us into mild but chronic acidosis. As acidity rises, the kidneys must compensate by seeking and using the body's precious alkali reserves. As the alkali reserves become depleted, the body's systems become compromised and are forced into suboptimal functioning.
Overall in our society, we consume a very imbalanced diet, high in acidifying foods. This imbalanced diet pushes us toward low-grade metabolic acidosis, to which the body's response is a withdrawal of calcium salts and other alkalizing mineral salts from the blood and tissues. The majority of fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, and spices have an alkalizing effect. Most grains are somewhat acid-forming, as are many high-protein foods. Refined sugar is acid-forming, while natural sea salt is alkaline-forming. Ideally, our diet should be composed of about 35% acid-forming foods and 65% alkaline-forming foods; however, the proportion of alkalizing foods should be higher when bringing the body back into balance, or when healing is required. For a comprehensive chart detailing the alkalizing and acidifying metabolic impacts of foods, see our acid-forming and alkaline-forming food charts.
Anyhow, I had hoped to hear from 'momof4kids' in this post because I know she said about a year ago, here in the FM Community of WebMD, that she found drinking good quality alkalinized water alone helps to cure her FM pain. Please see last comment to this post by her here at this link:
I started reading this as a skeptic, knowing that the physiology for the acid base balance is so complex. I also didn't think that urine pH is going to give you "blood gas pH" which is what we use to know that patients true balance. In saying that..my "mean and green diet" and water to flush I bet did this effect.
I had never eaten dandolions and kale before...but I was "grazing" for the hope of change. I did get it......
Maybe the effect was as you said. But again the nurse in me is so skeptical to altering this system. You can become alkalotic with hyperventilating and blowing off CO2 and you can mess the body up by using Sodium Bicarb as your stomach aid. But the body adjusts and tries to return to norm. So it effects the kidney function to hold up its part of the system.The pH of the body is a relatively small variable. Good luck with trying this for her.
Very well writen note though, what do you in life?
Your friend is lucky to have you as an investigator.