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    Atkins diet increases overall mortality
    EngineerGuy posted:
    Hi folks,

    It's nice to see validation of our program. Here's an analysis of data from the Nurses Health Study and Health Professionals Followup Study.

    A low carb, high animal protein diet, (like Atkins) increased overall mortality 23%.
    A low carb, high vegetable protein diet, decreased overall mortality 20%

    This was based on nutrition questionaires, to establish what diet the people followed.

    Of course, realize that no significant numbers of people in the study followed a very high vegetable diet, as advocated by Dr. Fuhrman. Many people who don't even get 5 servings of vegetables daily, report that they eat a lot of vegetables. (Dr. Fuhrman does not advocate a low carb diet, either.) My point is that people following Dr. Fuhrman's recommendations should have much better results. Three publications on Dr. Fuhrman's program support that (most long term weight loss ever published for any diet, most cholesterol reduction (33%) ever published for any diet, and case histories of some auto-immune cases). Success stories also support Dr. Fuhrman's diet.

    Low-Carbohydrate Diets and All-Cause and Cause-Specific Mortality
    Two Cohort Studies
    Teresa T. Fung,

    Annals of Internal Medicine, September 7, 2010
    vol. 153 no. 5 289-298

    Here's Dr. Ornish's comments about the study.

    Best regards, EngineerGuy
    xring responded:
    I'm often surprised that most people already know that a diet that predominates in animal-based foods is unhealthy, yet when such a diet is part of a "magical" weight loss gimmick, it seems OK to some.

    Having dealt with a lifelong weight problem, I know we don't have to sacrifice health to lose weight.
    Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see. - John Lennon -
    ufatbasted replied to xring's response:
    Everyone around me eats an animal based low veggie and fruit diet. Lots of white pasta too. They also get very little excercise. Especially my wife. I'm trying to get her to make some small dietary changes and she will hear none of it.
    She makes "special food" for me but will not eat it!!!!

    I had hoped my weight loss bloodwork results and activity level would inspire her/them to make some changes. But that is not happening.

    I'm watching those I love eat themselves to death and there is nothing I can do about it.
    I can't push to much on it as it will turn her/them off.

    I have not given up on them but it is really difficult to witness!!
    EngineerGuy replied to ufatbasted's response:
    Hi ufatbasted,

    Re: "I'm watching those I love eat themselves to death and there is nothing I can do about it.
    I can't push to much on it as it will turn her/them off."

    I feel for you. I'm in the same situation, except my wife is very supportive, and pretty much on the same program. I am very lucky there.

    But I have turned off some people in my family, by coming on too strong. I have learned some things by sad experience. I'll share them. Please don't laugh at me. Please don't rub it in. Helpful suggestions very welcome. :-)

    My son and daughter in law said, on the good-byes of a visit, "We have to increase the vegetables we eat. We know our diet isn't the best."

    Great! So I think they'll love what I say: "Yes, your diet is deficient, full of white flour and sugar and excess meat. More vegetables will make you much healthier."

    The next time we meet, my son is so turned off, that he says he is completely un-interested in diet, and it's just like his friend who is a born-again Christian. He says if the friend talks about religion, they'll leave.

    What I should have said at the end of the visit, "Great. That's excellent. You're doing exactly the right thing. Congratulations."

    Another lesson learned: Never offer any criticism of food that a person has, that they are about to eat. If they ask your opinion, even in jest about the food in front of them, say, "It looks delicious". "Save some for me." "Trade you my vegetables". Big smile.

    I aspire to become a Health Coach, when I retire. I am compelled to spread the word. I live in Salt Lake City, where many here also have a mission. What is more important than eternal salvation? But missionaries know that most people they talk to will have no interest in their message, which they feel is the most important message a person can hear. And thus it is with our health message. Most people will not be interested.

    I wish to be informative, to let people know about this new and dramatic way to take control of your health destiny. I don't advocate anyone do this, but only learn about it. Nobody should try do this, unless the decide that they insist upon it, for their health, for their happiness and benefit. Nobody should try to adopt this lifestyle because I say it's a good idea.

    When I give talks as a Health Coach (when I retire), I think my opening line will be on the offensive, "Dr. Dean Ornish was the first person to demonstrate reversal of atherosclerosis in humans. Since then, Ornish, Pritikin, McDougall, Esselstyn and Fuhrman routinely reverse heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, and many other diseases."

    Thinking about getting along with the wife, it can be tough. This story is only very slightly exaggerated: One morning I asked my wife how her oatmeal is. She says "Will you stop lecturing me about diet!"

    If I decide to say how I believe the diet can affect some problem my wife has, I actually remember the date, and promise myself I won't mention diet again for a month. And I preface the comment with "I only mean to be informative, and I don't mean to preach or to be irritating." I say what I mean to say, and I don't say it again for a month or longer. Once in a long while, she'll actually ask.

    We're actually doing great now. There was a time, however, when it was rubbing a raw nerve.

    Best of luck to you, ufatbasted. Share your thoughts ? :-)

    Best regards, EngineerGuy
    ufatbasted replied to EngineerGuy's response:

    Thanks for the reply. I would assume many of those who live on plants are in the same boat as we are

    I've really only been pushing my wife and once in a while I give subtle dig to my children when the opportunity arises.
    I had hoped to lead by example but no one is following my lead.

    You gave me some good advice some of which I've be already been following when asked about food.
    I always ask when we have dinner if the steak is good etc.
    I also offer what I'm eating to anyone at the table.

    My big concern is my wife. I want to give us the best shot to live a healthy and active old age. I've been trying to impress on her how one persons health issue's can impact an entire family, so why not give yourself the best shot? If not for you for those around you.

    I may just give my wife and kids the gift of the China Study and leave it at that.

    Becoming a health coach is a great idea!!! That may be something I could get into.

    Funny my sister in law is overweight and hurt her knee turning in bed. Went to the ER and the main story I was told is she has a slightly deformed knee since childhood.
    When my wife was telling me this I questioned if they told her to lose some weight. The answer was of course they did. But the funny thing is this was not part of the diagnosis until I asked!
    When I see someone like that I know I could help.She could drop 50 lbs and take a lot of stress of her joints..

    If only they would follow....
    josvin84 responded:
    Eye catching title over Atkins diet. But, lets be honest the overall mortality rate is and has always been 100% no matter which diet someone follows.
    twinb63 replied to josvin84's response:
    hahahahahaha. j84 points out the cold hard facts, always a funny eye-opener.

    Something from my experience: when I was a lot thinner I was telling someone about the foods I ate & it must've come across as evangelical because the response was "Ain't gonna happen!". Oh. OK...
    DeadManWalking57 replied to twinb63's response:
    I feel for everyone on this. I go through the same thing.

    That all diets have 100% mortality is true, but for many that mortality arrives decades earlier, or may merely cripple the person with a severe heart attack or stroke.

    One minor difference for me is that I can honestly tell people if I eat what they eat I will very likely get significant chest pain within 24 hours. With the most recent episode 2 years ago, I went to the ER when it would not subside and the pain went on for over two hours. My entire diaphragm. Doctors said it was not heart related, but perhaps the blood flow to that area. That came on four hours after eating 1/4 avocado.

    If someone I don't know at the work cafeteria replies should I may comment I can't eat something they are, or that I wish I could, I sneak in my message. Sometimes they will ask more.

    For everyone else who knows me at work, they see the consist diet I follow, and for many that is reminder enough. Or they will check to see if I am eating anything any different.

    I park my pomegranate juice at work in the fridge of another group on my floor. After years of the same juice type appearing week after week, they all asked me about it a couple weeks ago, so I got to tell them about it, and the beneficial paraoxonase effects that reduce blockages.

    Feel free to let people you talk to know that is eventually in their future if they are lucky. The unlucky more often go 6 feet under.

    My wife has started drinking diluted pomegranate juice along with me, as has another lady at work.

    I know all you here are working to improve your circulation, and stay away from my damage level.

    I was just on my treadmill for the first time in 3 weeks, after bruised rib muscle, and back strain made everything hurt if I did any exercise. At first my heart rate seemed too high for my walking speed, the first 10 minutes it went from the 90's to low 120's, continuous rise. My warmup seldom went past 105 - 110 before. Then Pop! I suspect my collaterals opened up as my heart rate dropped 30 points back down to the low 90's. Very cool, they still work.

    Keep the faith, in our diets and in God. We don't always have to talk about our diets. They will speak to others for us. Eventually someone you know, or who they know will start getting chest pains, and will learn of your solid diet, and come ask you about it. Then inform a bit at a time as they inquire. What they ask about, they may remember.

    On the evangelical religion thing, I've enjoyed learning of mystic Emmanuel Swedenborg. He boils it down to Heaven will be enjoying growth in love and wisdom. Hell will be being able to surround oneself with others with the same vices who will all be trying to lie and prey on each other for eternity. So if we live a life of love of others and learning, we are already sort of on heavenly training wheels.

    Will others with a bad diet get to experience something akin to permanent massive heart attack pain into eternity ?

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