Heart Health Fuhrman Ornish

Hi Dolores,

I agree with Jeff that we should not eat blended fruit smoothies. The point he missed is that Fuhrman recommends blended salads, in addition to ordinary salads. The point of the blender is to consume more veggies, not more fruit.

I eat a large blender full of greens for breakfast, with enough fruit to make it palatable, and some seeds. This is a convenient way to consume more green vegetables than I would otherwise, as well as absorb more of the nutrients, because we cannot chew the vegetables as well as a blender. Studies show that we do not absorb most of the nutrients in a salad, because many of the cell walls are not broken by any reasonable amount of chewing.

Best regards, EngineerGuy

Hi Dolores,

I agree with Jeff that we should not consume our fruit from a blender. The point he missed that Fuhrman recommends blended green vegetables, in addition to regular salads.

My breakfast is a large blender full of veggies, salad greens, seeds, and enough fruit to make it taste good. This is more veggies than I would have for breakfast, otherwise. Also, more nutrients are absorbed, because the blender breaks many more of the plant cell walls than chewing can.

The point of the blender is to help us consume more veggies, not more fruit.

Best regards, EngineerGuy

I hear you. But it seems to me that if we are thus deficient in nutrients even though we consume lots of leafy greens and other healthful fruits and vegetables, we all would have been born with vitamixes attached to our umbilical cords. Evolution would have taken care of the tough cell wall problem.

Dolores

I hear you. But it seems to me that if this were a problem, nature would have seen to it that we were all born with vitamixes attached to our umbilical cords.

I understand that as far as water soluble vitamins in pill form are concerned, the body uses what it needs and eliminates the rest. I don't know about fat soluble vitamins. Might the same hold true for vitamins or phytochemicals in food? Because you are eating so many does that mean that you are using them all?

Dolores

I agree with both you and EG (which is a funny way of saying I'm not sure which theory is right). Both make sense to me.

By the way, Dolores, if you haven't checked it out already, I started an interesting thread in the Diabetes exchange & the replies are worth reading, especially Dr. Dansinger's.
http://forums.webmd.com/3/diabetes-exchange/forum/7266/24

I saw your post and read Dansinger's comment. Dr. Dansinger's diet seems a lot like the ADA diet. He recommends meat and dairy. I wrote to the group and asked if anyone on the group actually halted or reversed their diabetes by following Dr. Dansinger's diet but I never saw it appear. Was there some mixup with the computer or server or web md or did someone just not allow my comment? I did not mean to be facetious or argumentative but honestly wanted to know of anyone following his advice is now drug free and in control.

I do not see ads for meds on tv but I do see ads for insulin. The actor says he tried to control his diabetes with diet, exercise and drugs but they didn't work and he did the smart thing and switched to insulin. So now everyone using an ADA diet or some other useless diet will think they need insulin.

Dolores

X, I also read your opinion of 6 to 11 servings of carbs. This brings up a question I have about the McDougall diet which even Dr. McDougall did not answer to my satisfaction. He champions a starch based (not plant based diet) So it seems that 6 to 11 servings of starch would not be out of the question on his diet. However, I pointed out on his discussion group that if you look at pictures of the buffet table at his live in center in Santa Rosa, it seems that people help themselves to all kinds of leafy green salads, cooked and raw vegetables. soups etc before they reach the end of the buffet table which contains the starch dishes. So if you fill up on the cooked and raw vegetables (and the fresh fruits he has in bowls as snacks), then it seems to me you would not be eating 6 to eleven servings of starches per day. He replied to my comment by saying something like he thought of that and was afraid people would get the impression it wasn't a starch based diet. I don't know if he will be making changes or how people at home interpret his diet. He gets wonderful results in restoring health using his "starch based" diet whatever that is exactly. And I am wondering if his diabetes patients eat so much as 11 servings. I personally eat starches at at least two and sometimes at all four of my meals but this might mean 1/2 to 2/3 cup of oatmeal and banana for breakfast, a potato with one or two meals, sometimes a vegie or portabella sandwich using 2 pieces of sprouted whole grain bread. Right now I made up a batch of brown rice and will eat the rice at two or three meals along with beans (and of course other vegetables.) Excessive for some diabetics who shudder at the thought of any carbs at all, but far fewer than the 6 to 11 recommended. I am not on meds. Normal fasting blood sugars.

Dolores

I think Dr. Dansinger includes meat (or meat substitutes) and dairy because he wants to recommend a diet that most people can live with that isn't so strict that few people will be able to follow it. I get that impression because he does suggest cutting back on animal foods.

I'm also a bit puzzled by Dr. McDougall's recommendations for starchy foods. Maybe some do well on it.

Here in CA, we are bombarded with TV ads for drugs-especially for diabetes and cholesterol, and print ads for insulin. My favorite is "Diet & exercise weren't enough for my cholesterol. I stopped kidding myself & started taking Crestor. Don't kid yourself."

It's amusing that at the same time, we are also bombarded with TV ads that say, "If you took ______(this drug) and have suffered any of these diseases (long list) or heart attack, stroke, epilepsy, brain damage, etc. call our office. These drugs have been clinically proven to cause_______."

Hi Dolores,

Excellent questions and observations, as always.

Re: "I understand that as far as water soluble vitamins in pill form are concerned, the body uses what it needs and eliminates the rest. I don't know about fat soluble vitamins. Might the same hold true for vitamins or phytochemicals in food? Because you are eating so many does that mean that you are using them all?"


I wondered the same thing, when I started to eat so many veggies.


Before eating all the veggies, I used to share the colds of the people around me. Now I watch them suffer through their colds. When I work out and run and get minor bumps and bruises and sorenesses, they just go away in a few hours or day or two. I really think the veggies have a great benefit, based on my own experience. Like Charles Barkley said in his radio program, "I could be wrong, but I don't think so." :-)



Best regards, EngineerGuy

Even though I'm still considering a blender (because of Dr. Fuhrman's recommendations), I also wonder about the notion of chewing food being inadequate to extract all the nutrients. I'm thinking about the 30-40 feet of intestine it has to go through, after the stomach's acids do their work. It seems that would extract what chewing didn't extract.

It reminds me of those "Juiceman" juicer infomercial ads that say "Juicing rushes the nutrients into your bloodstream much faster than eating." The video was played for a nutritionist who said, "So what if the juice's nutrients get into the bloodstream faster.....What's the rush?"

Hi folks,

Don't forget. The blender is a way to eat more vegetables. It is in ADDITION to salad, raw and steamed veggies. It is not intended to replace raw or cooked veggies. We would not recommend eating all of our veggies blended, nor all raw, nor all cooked. Eat some of all. The blended part is the optional, of the 3.

Xring, when you mention that Fuhrman answered your question as to why you could lose 75 pounds and keep it off without a thought, since the food is high nutrient density. I feel the same way.

I went to visit family and friends for 3 days, at my brother-in-law's funeral. I tried to break the diet in moderation, but failed miserably. Not only did I want to eat and eat and eat, but 3 hours later, I was famished again!! I was pathetic. It was halarious. We have to be able to laugh at ourselves, here. There really is something to this nutrient density idea.

Best regards, EngineerGuy

Hi folks,

I was on the diet a year before I tried blended greens for breakfast, with enough fruit to make it palatable. Now I do it every day for breakfast.

Best regards, EngineerGuy

EG, there must be something to the nutrient density thing and/or I have been exercising a lot more. I used to make a gigantic serving bowl full of salad fixings and eat the whole thing. Now I fix a big container and only take some of it out to eat and will go back for more if I am still hungry but I seldom do. Very strange. I noticed I am eating smaller portions than before. I also really never knew what it was like to be full. I could polish off a whole pizza and have eaten a whole carton of ice cream. Now with lots of vegetables I often get uncomfortably full, and at the next meal take much smaller portions.

Dolores

Maybe it's that "micronutrient" thing Dr. Fuhrman talks about in the PBS lecture.