Skip to content
My WebMD Sign In, Sign Up

Announcements

Please see the new Men's Sexuality exchange. It is suggested that this exchange be geared to men's health issues.
Truth: Is it relative or absolute? In regard to the post: ?Straight but had sexual activity with a buddy...?
avatar
goingcommando posted:
As a reader and a contributor to this message board since early January of this year, I?ve observed that many contributors think that whatever we as men consider to be right or wrong is dependent primarily on what we think as individuals to be right or wrong and is not dependent on something that is outside of ourselves?like a standard for right and wrong. In other words, we do what is right in our own eyes. That is our standard for morality. The mantra is that we ?judge not lest we be judged,? and what one man does that we consider wrong may not be wrong because he doesn?t think it is wrong. It is really up to the individual to decide these questions. No one is to judge him since every man is different and can decide and should decide for himself what his actions should be. No one is to judge since that would be infringing on his right to decide for himself. Thus, there is no absolute truth since truth is relative.
So, we have a post entitled ?Straight but had sexual activity with a buddy...? and have had at least 73 replies that debate if ?BuddyFavor,? who is happily married, should or should not have had drunken ?man on man? sex with his male friend while on a trip to Florida. The opinions have ranged from either ?go for it? and enjoy this ?extension of masturbation? to how does his wife figure into this triangle of extra-marital sex as well as the possibility of STD?s. Few, if any, are willing to say that BuddyFavor?s behavior is morally wrong and that his behavior is a transgression against his wife and his marriage vows. If a judgment were given that his behavior is morally wrong, there would be no basis for the judgment if we believe that morality is a personal interpretation so no one has the ?right? to say anything is wrong.
My question is: Is there any time when something is morally wrong? If something is morally wrong, why is it wrong?
Keep in mind the main philosophy that I see on these boards is that ?we should not be judging? and that ?truth is only what we think is true? since truth is relative and not absolute. Thus, with no absolutes, there can be no exceptions to the ?rule? (there can be no absolutes).
Any thoughts?
Reply
FirstPrevious12NextLast
 
avatar
tftobin responded:
I think we should kill him.

I can't judge him, I'm not in his shoes. It would be morally for me, which is why I'm not out doing it. It would screw me up, screw my wife up, and screw our relationship up. GymGuyGreg said basically the same thing.

I am totally unwilling to say that what he did was morally wrong.
I am totally unwilling to say that what he did was morally right.
 
avatar
John-SKPT responded:
" Is there any time when something is morally wrong? If something is morally wrong, why is it wrong?"

Killing another person is obviously morally wrong, always; deliberately hurting another person, physically, emotionally, or financially is obviously wrong, always.

But if you want to talk about a few out of context quotations from Leviticus or some other text, those are human words written long ago, largely by people of dubious motives. And after two or three translations, the origin is even less clear. If you go back to the Hebrew and Greek translations, they are so unlike the Kink James or the other newer translations that you begin to question what the original goal was: to elucidate the ways to live a good life, or some way to politically manipulate a medieval populace.
 
avatar
John-SKPT replied to John-SKPT's response:
"King James" was my intention. One more typo in my collection of thousands. Sorry to anyone offended; it was not an editorial comment.
 
avatar
GQ1985 responded:
I can only say what is morally right or wrong for ME. And as it pertains to the mentioned case, I find it as morally wrong for ME to cheat on a gf (or wife if I were married) with a male as with a female. My defination of cheating is any sexual relation or encounter with another when you are in a committed relationship. I think if we are totally honest with ourselves, we would feel cheated on if our gf's or wives were having a same sex relationship behind our backs. We should therefore live by the Golden Rule. If you have an open relationship, and these boundaries have been clearly defined by both partners, this then puts a new slant on the situation. So, to answer your question, Commando, is would be morally wrong for me to have "man to man" sex if I was married.
 
avatar
calvinrankin7 responded:
wow, commando, coming out of your shell with all of this new realization towards the purpose, and the real use of this site....hmmm tough questions. but really, truth is totally absolute. because saying it is relative and all that jazz, then it can be said that "well in this situation, this person thought he had to kill this person because he knew it to be morally right. who are we to judge him?" exaggerated yeah, but it leads to the most basic things. you can make exceptions, "oh well obviously murdering someone is wrong" but that just leads to more exceptions, "well stealing is wrong too" but then you are saying that there are absolutes. so if you believe truth is relative, and you say stealing is wrong, then you are judging someone else who may think it is right in their situation. so then who is to decide what is absolute and what isnt? if you think everything is relative, then you truly cant judge a thief. so then are there only certain specific truths that are absolute, and some relative? i think it has to be one or the other.

but really everyone knows what is right and what is wrong. you can feel it. BuddyFavor obviously felt guilty after his sexual experience, cheating on his wife, thats why he asked the question here. he knew it was wrong. it might not be wrong to be gay, but to cheat on your wife, yeah. i still think he needs to tell his wife about that. she deserves to know, not because of the std thing (but that too), but because lying to her, and still wanting to continue sexual activity outside the relationship without her knowledge, is morally wrong any way you cut it. im not saying he is gay, but if he wants that relationship to survive she needs to know. then she and can also forgive. it might hurt and may mess up the relationship, but he knew it was wrong when he did it, something like that you just know.

inside everyone is a conscious where you know right from wrong, and with the small stuff it comes down to laziness. like "does it really matter if i do this or not." that stuff that is on a much smaller size than theft or murder or sexual deviancy, can still have an absolute truth, but it just does have as much power behind it. and i think that is what leads to the thought of relatives, like "is this really that bad?".

agh, im confusing myself. and i think i offended 20 different people there. but whatever...trying to get my thoughts clear. did i even answer the question? did this help?

"calvin"
 
avatar
tftobin replied to calvinrankin7's response:
It's odd how I come to the opposite conclusion. There are no moral absolutes. If his wife is just a little different, or if the situation took place in Europe, she might actually be aroused if she found out, and want to watch, or take place in a threesome.
As well as killing the marriage, it also has a chance to expand intimacy in a different direction. It all depends on the people involved, and their choices.
This is something that has to be worked out, relationship by relationship.
 
avatar
realbiglu replied to tftobin's response:
If there are no moral absolutes, no right or wrong. Then how can the statement, "There are no moral absolutes," be true? How can this statement be correct?
 
avatar
GAP1954 responded:
Truth seems to be an attempt by man to define something completely outside his ability to comprehend. Truth is not a universal ideal but is heavily influenced by culture and time period. The obviously wrongs of today were considered acceptable in times past and will eventually be replaced or modified by future generations. Would you not kill to protect? Would you not steal to provide food for your children? We could list every "wrong" we could think of and find perfectly plausible situations in which that "wrong" would be acceptable or be able to describe times and cultures where that "wrong" was acceptable.
The Bible has lots of rules for lots of different times. In the new testament, there was a big vision that happened to a guy who was refusing to "change his belief of what was wrong". So to say that even God has laid down unchangeable laws is to call the Bible a flawed guide book.
Society creates rules of acceptable behavior. Cross the rules and you have the consequences that society feels are justified. Families, as a smaller reflection of the societal system develop in much the same way.
Absolutes? Let me get silly
I had a relative who drank my absolute.
We have to look within ourselves and develop standards for ourselves. We may get those from religious sources, cultural traditions or family mores. But ultimately - we make all our decision based on what we can live with.
 
avatar
GuardSquealer responded:
I have been thinking about posting something similar. It is more about what is acceptable.

Over the years more and more things have started to become "acceptable" because somebody doesn't want to offend somebody. In the case of BuddyFavor there are a couple of different issues that come up. One is the homosexual behavior and the other is his infedelity. Some people applauded him for his behavior, others took issue with it.

If we don't want to offend anyone and point out that some behaviors probably are not acceptable then eventually all behaviors will be deemed acceptable.

Is it ok to steal food to feed your family? if so then is it ok to rob a bank to pay your mortgage payment? Is one worse than the other? Should we accept either behavior?

I work daily in an enviroment filled with convicted felons. Most of them can justify their crimes. In their minds their behavior is ok. Most of them were raised, and lived in an enviroment where bad behavior was common place. They see daily people living a life where breaking the law was normal and that is how they choose to live.

You commonly hear about people that have risen above the bad enviroment they were raised in and have made something of themselves. But everyone of them there are thousands that have not.

Children are no longer raised with a sense of shame. Parents say they don't want to make them feel bad, so when they do something wrong they don't make them experience feeling ashamed of what they have done. This carries over to adulthood. Most of these inmates feel no shame for what they have done.

Should BuddyFavor feel shame for what he has done? Should we just accept his behavior and not voice our opinion that maybe something is wrong with these behaviors? I am not sure who gets to decide what is acceptable and what is not. Obviously in this forum the consensus is that it is ok. And he is applauded for acting on his pent up desires to be with another man. In some other forums this would not be the case.

My concerns are when does something become acceptable? What if I get sexual gratification from pretending to accidently rub against women in the subway or on the bus? If no one is getting hurt is this ok? Should society start to accept this type of behavior? Should I find a forum where others enjoy the same type of behavior so that they will understand me and make me feel ok about myself? Suddenly my behavior might not be that bad. I have found others that think it is ok. And they seem to be excited about me acting out on my fantasies.

Should I take it to the next level? Maybe what I really want to do is expose myself to these unsuspecting women? Or men for that matter. Can I make it seem like I just forgot to zip up? Would that be ok? Can I find someone to accept that? Once that is acceptable, maybe it will be ok for me to masturbate in public? Where does it stop? When do we say enough is enough and bad behavior is bad behavior?

Should we be more careful whom we choose to be our heros?
I don't know? Sure we can say what is right for us. And for each of us it will probably be different. Since we live in a society the group gets to say what is right for the group. But anymore the lines have started to get more and more blurred and crossed and nobody wants to offend anyone. We should all be more tolerant right? Until it effects us? Our children? Our parents?
 
avatar
An_206056 replied to GuardSquealer's response:
GuardSquealer,
Great well thought out post. Leaving truth to be defined by society and the indvidual can create a culture that preys upon itself and excuses away any behavior.

Truth has to exist beyond the indvidual and culture. Most people are too lazy to spend a life in search of truth. It is much easier to say there is no truth than to look for it.

I too have worked in the human service and court field. I seen all kinds of behavior done to other human beings.


Question: If there is no truths are there such things as facts.
 
avatar
All_is_One responded:
In my opinion, truth is relative. Like others have said, the value we put in 'right' and 'wrong' changes with time, with the cultures, and the overall evolution of mankind. The only absolute Truth (capital "T") is knowing WHAT we are, our Source (WHERE we originate from), WHY we are here, and WHERE we are going. I do believe that life is a continual spiraling upward drive to the ultimate union with Source/Creator/God so humanity goes through the same kinds of situations but each time we do, we have more compassion, understanding, acceptance, tolerance, etc. I do think eventually we will understand those "Truth" questions I presented up there, and then we will truly know what we need to do as individuals and as a societal whole to continue. There has to be a purpose as to why humanity is in the dark about these questions, and I'm sure its all going to come to a glorious awakening.
 
avatar
An_206057 replied to GuardSquealer's response:
Brilliant post, Guardsquealer. Thank you.
 
avatar
An_206058 replied to All_is_One's response:
All is one,

I am getting really concerned about you. I want you to make me a promise; when a charasmatic person comes to you and wants you to join his commune don't do it, even if he uses double speak and sounds like yoda... do..not....join.
 
avatar
ammar57 replied to All_is_One's response:
In regard to what you are saying here;In my opinion, truth is relative. Like others have said, the value we put in 'right' and 'wrong' changes with time, with the cultures, and the overall evolution of mankind. The only absolute Truth (capital "T") is knowing WHAT we are, our Source (WHERE we originate from), WHY we are here, and WHERE we are going. I do believe that life is a continual spiraling upward drive to the ultimate union with Source/Creator/God so humanity goes through the same kinds of situations but each time we do, we have more compassion, understanding, acceptance, tolerance, etc. I do think eventually we will understand those "Truth" questions I presented up there, and then we will truly know what we need to do as individuals and as a societal whole to continue. There has to be a purpose as to why humanity is in the dark about these questions, and I'm sure its all going to come to a glorious awakening.
Top of Form

Bottom of Form
Thanks for your Reply!

In what you say here i agree and believe that we are becoming a greater people a greater person.

We must have a relationship with God the creator of the universe. Know Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. All of us have our own ways of serving God.
We must never judge others for what they think of what is right or wrong.


Spotlight: Member Stories

50, married, 2 kids. Prostate Cancer surgery at 48. Doing fine now. But along the way, created www.franktalk.org for guys with ED. Now am hoping to ...More

Helpful Tips

More Discussions
Hey guys not sure if anyone else caught on but I just figured out at the bottom of the threads there is a link that says "more dicussions" ... More
Was this Helpful?
130 of 195 found this helpful

Helpful Resources

Be the first to post a Resource!

Report Problems to the
Food and Drug Administration

FDAYou are encouraged to report negative side effects of prescription drugs to the FDA. Visit the FDA MedWatch website or call 1-800-FDA-1088.