pain management support group

Sorry, Bren. I looked into prolotherapy a few years ago, and only found anecdotal info about the results of the procedure. I found no evidence based research that supported this therapy.

The abstract you quoted stated that "Based on observations gleaned from treatment responses to Prolotherapy..." the author of the original article gathered her information. For me, this is not a proper scientific study.

I would look for evidence based research that supports prolotherapy for the specific condition that you have, it should be a randomized, double blind study. If you find one, let me know, I would love to read it, and see if there is something new since the last time I looked.

Take care, Annette

Hey there Annette, thanks for your reply.

The thing that is so hard for me to grasp is that I've been diagnosed as having so many "conditions" that I'm back to square one. No doctor can pinpoint my pain exactly and now I'm going with something that just seems to make sense. I've tried everything else that can be done to manage my symptoms, and my pain management doc recently suggested this. A doc a mayo clinic told me about it in 2006, but he was clear to state it was a tough to find a great physician who knew how to perform it appropriately. My current guy is a spine surgeon who says he has avoided a triple-fusion through the (long) process of prolotherapy.

I did read about 25% of a book in his office where they had such studies you mentioned: Prolotherapy Your Pain Away.

There seem to be a lot more resources, even on the internet, since I checked back in '07.

If I find something electronic I will be sure to share. In the meantime, I'm dealing with much more inflammation (because that's what the shots do), and therefore, pain. It was a very unpleasant experience, as I received about 4 injections and screamed and about kicked him...then he sent me to a pharmacy to get valium and percocet and told me to meet him back in an hour. After that, I was miserable still and got another "round". I lost count at 15. I was pretty upset as I was told the lidocaine would have worked to help numb considerably, and he even tried 2 other forms of local anesthetic, but nothing compared to that awful deep tearing sensation.

Sounds horrible, and it was. They said that I was the 1 in about 30 of their patients who had such an experience (i.e.painful and no numbing). I'm giving it an honest go though, and definitely will share. To me, the models of referred pain presented in the article that I shared definitely pertain to the pain I experience. It only makes sense to me that when I crashed down on my bike seat 4.5yrs ago that I suffered from connective tissue damage. I feel that reperation of this tissue (at its best) will help with SI joint stability, then ultimately pain. I don't think it's the silver bullet, but I'm so desperate.

What type of adverse reaction from the treatment do you recall?

Take care, Bren

Also, Annette, I failed to include the link to the author (doc's) paper. Where you quoted was from just an abstract...but I'm going to read through the paper to see about any studies.

http://www.prolotherapynashville.com/downloadables/Connective_Tissue_Damage_Syndrome_(Article_written_by_Dr_Johnson).pdf

To the best of my recollection the main adverse reaction was PAIN. Add that to the fact that they could not prove that the therapy actually worked, and I could see no point in pursuing it.

I read much of the article you referenced and did not find studies referenced, only this doctor's personal experiences.

I will go back later and reread it when I have time to do so more thoroughly.

Thanks for posting it.

Hugs, Annette

I just went back and returned to the end of the article where most peer reviewed journals have their bibliography of studies, etc. used to formulate the article, and there was no bibliography.

I also noted that this was published in the very first issue of a journal dealing exclusively with prolotherapy.

Hugs, Annette

You have been getting prolotherapy for awhile now, how is it going? Are you seeing any relief yet?

Take care, Annette

Hey there Annette,

Yes, I'm 17 days into the treatment. I explained to you the large amount of injections I received and the pain I was in during and immediately after the procedure...as for what's new: I feel more mobility in my joints (SI and hip), my hamstring/groin pain is more sporadic in intensity. I have felt some difference with my pudendal neuralgia - it's much more defined and distinct from the pulled hamstring pain. Don't know what all that really indicates; but I accept the difference as improvement??

My husband got really quiet last night when I explained the difficulty I was having - he is rarely so speechless. He started to show some doubt. I have been, admittedly, skeptical since the day of the procedure, but last night was the first time we have been on the same page about it.

I get very "reflective" after visiting doctors and it takes time to digest what they have to say. For some reason I have been dwelling on their "claims" recently (the spine surgeon and his assistant wife). One being that they see this type of injury/pain on a daily basis (which I highly doubt they've seen my case and all the complexities).They also claimed that I was 1in about 30 patients who didn't get the proper relief from the lidocaine and various other anesthetics. The other 29 patients got instant relief of their symptoms and some could "hop around".

They also generalized the length of the process of achieving a full recovery: anywhere from 2-10 treatments. They did say I should expect pain relief (90-100%). Now I stew over the fact that I am that 1 in 30 patients who doesn't display a "typical" outcome....I'm really trying hard to not be cynical...

We've decided to give it up to 3 more tries(1 procedure/month or 6 wks). We don't have the money for it all (cash only is accepted, and they won't file our insurance - that is a case we have to make with Aetna); so, without the cash flow we have to take out a loan. I'm not working because I can't, but we're fortunate enough to have child care, so I have plenty of down time for healing.

I may have just written way too much in response, but I do want to kind of "log" my experience.

Also, I did read that it is an effective treatment for patients who suffer from Fibromyalgia.?..I would love to hear their testimonials. Speaking of which: my husband and boy spent several hrs in the waiting room, and all the patients they encountered were returning. One lady after 5 yrs of relief.

Thanks for caring and taking the time to write! I hope you are doing well with the belly dancing and lower pain levels!?!
Take great care, wishing you the best,
Bren

PS. the following link does demonstrate some studies done:
http://getprolo.com/

I'm also going to post a doc's response to my question about prolotherapy here on webmd; so long as I can find it

Prolotherapy - Is the DOCTOR in?????? bren_bren posted: A few months ago I posted a response to the Dr. about PRP and Prolotherapy - he had created a poll that asked readers their opinions about this sort of therapy.

I am writing to him, and others who have had experience, about prolotherapy (It prompts healing in ligaments, tendons, and cartilage, and it supporsedly is more effective in curing pain caused by damaged, unhealed connective tissue).

I suffer from horrible pelvic pain that is relative to a disc bulge at L5 S1, SI joint dysfunction, pudendal neuralgia, and various other "diagnosees".

The problem with my inability to get a diagnosis and the appropriate treatment has exhausted me. I used to by a cyclist and I think this all started after slipping off of my pedal and crashing down on my bike saddles. I continued to ride anyway, then played tennis the next day. It felt like a serious hamstring pull at first, then sciatica, then low back pain accompanied by burning down my left leg.

I feel that I have damaged the ligaments there, then after compensating for the pain on my left side, I was limping and sitting oddly for some time.

Prolotherapy makes sense to me; however, I went out of state for my first session and it was incredibly painful. I received around 20 injections into the various ligaments and tendons within my pelvis and lumbar spine. The shot had lidocaine, dextrose, and some other med. The lidocaine did not work - I have to get like 4-6 shots at the dentist before he can drill - and since it didn't work, he tried 2 other combinations to no avail.

I want ANYONE who has had an experience, or knows someone who has had this procedure done, to share their story because I could really use some positive input now. The visit was over $700 cash and my insurance doesn't cover it. The next visit will be minus the initial 1st time consulation fee, but I fear it will be around $500. Before I wipe out my savings (my husband is the only one who is working now), I would like to know if this is too steep of a price?? I trust that the doc knows what he is doing, he used to be a spine surgeon, however it seems a bit flaky because he mentioned it would take 6-10 treatments 1 time a month.

Please, someone tell me I'm not pursuing something that is going to create more problems (ie. scar tissue), and eventually lead to more complications in regard to my chronic pain.

Thanks for your time, Bren [a name=0> 4 days ago DUKE MEDICINEDavid Berkoff, MD responded: Prolotherapy does work for some people and not for others. It is typically a cash procedure and it typically takes multiple sessions to get things better. What is used and how the injections are done is very variable. There is no data out there to guarantee you success and the impact to the wallet is very real. THere a a ton of people who have had relief and I would recommend looking on the web for someone in your area who is both knowledgeable in prolo and spine. Sounds like this first doc was a reasonable choice. You can alway see out a second opinion but in the end no one will guarantee you success. Chronic pelvic pain is tricky and unless they can figure out which structures are causing the pain your success may be limited.
Getprolo.com is a good site that lists prolo docs nationwide.Good luck

I have typically found what Dr. Berkoff found, they want your cash, insurance doesn't pay for this procedure, and they can't prove it works with evidence based medicine.

I would not spend $500 more or less per treatment without knowing that double blind studies had shown it to be useful.

I looked through the site mentioned and it seemed like the abstracts were either retrospective studies, or case studies, not double blind studies.

Best of luck, I hope it works for you. Keep in touch and let us know.

Take care, Annette

I have had numerous prolotherapy treatments on my shoulders, back, neck, and other parts of my body as well, and have chronicled the treatments at http://prolotherapydiary.com . I encourage you to visit to learn more about prolotherapy injections from the patient's perspective.

I had pretty PROFOUND results with dextrose Prolo in right shoulder about 4 yrs ago, I got good relief for at least 3 yrs...

I'm still doing good but found recently a new anti inflammatory which I'm doing very very good with for other issues including my shoulders....

I would look into Prolo before any surgery.....