Parenting: Friends Talking Community

The worst thing my parents did to me and my sisters after the divorce was to criticize each other to us. If you tell a child "Your other parent did/is doing everything wrong" you send two messages loud and clear, 1) you (the child) are bad for loving your terrible other parent and 2) if you (the child) remind me of your other parent I won't like you either. We were always defending one parent to the other, which led to needless stress and arguments, and forced us into the middle of their dispute with each other. What you need to do is trust your children. They will have a lifetime to see how you and their father behave, and what it means. They'll sort it out. I see my mom and dad's strengths and weaknesses and I love them both, and appreciate now that they both did the best they could. Your children may someday say "its your fault daddy left" or "I wish I lived with daddy" or any number of hurtful things, but you have to be the parent and not let these things get under your skin. Often they mean something completely different, like "I'm mad at you because you won't let me play video games for 6 hours at a stretch". Good luck and best wishes,

Hi, I haven't been through a divorce but I am a child of divorce (now in my 30's). First, I want to say I'm very sorry for all that you have been going through. I just wanted to comment on what people have told you about how staying together for the kids can cause more damage in the long run. I read a book a few years ago in my church library about the effects of divorce on children and was struck by how her findings were true to my own life. Judith Wallerstein did a 25 year long in-depth study (The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce; A 25 Year Landmark Study) that shows that divorce, except in cases of abuse, can and does cause long-lasting emotional scars for children. I don't say that to make you feel guilty, but I thought you should know that your initial instinct is right. I hope that you and your husband can still reconcile, for your children and for yourself. Research on the subject shows that 2/3 of unhappy married couples are happily married 5 years later if they stay together and stick it out. I've been married 13 years, and I can honestly say that things are so much better now than they were in the beginning. We also had two children 1-1/2 years apart and it was a very stressful time. They're older now (7 and 9) and although we now have a 3 year old too, when the two kids close together got older it was much easier. I can tell this is a big struggle for you and you sound like a great mom who is really concerned about her kids. You mentioned that you "always put their wants and needs before my own." Make sure that, especially at a time like this, you take care of yourself too. If you sacrifice everything you've got for your kids you'll have nothing left for yourself or your spouse. And in the end that's not good for the kids or your marriage. It's a balance, which I know all to well is hard to get right. I wish you well and will be praying that your hearts can be softened towards one another.

I hope you value truth, because it hurts. I married a man whose wife divorced him. He was probably not "as involved," either. Much as I love him, it was NOT good for the kids that they had divorced. He was not violent nor unfaithful. The kids forever had 2 homes with 2 sets of rules (confusing). They forever (still, as adults) were conflicted in their loyalties between parents. Throw in me - a stepmom who was actively involved, and they forever had conflicts about me vs. Mom. Studies back this stuff up. It harms kids. It impacts their ability to bond. You will NOT get rid of your husband. You will give up half of you time with your kids, half of your ability to influence them. You will invite an unknown person to bond with and influence them. I'd rather have the authority to choose those people, but you won't. The kids will be gone for Christmas, Thanksgiving, summer vacation, Spring Break depending on the year. If you get an idiot judge, they will be travelling on some of those holidays (we traded ON Christmas - and mom had moved 5 hour away). If he moves away, they will spend half their visitation weekends on the road. You will plan your calendar according to his and hers as well as yours. You will have him - and whoever he marries - at their graduations, their weddings, and the birth of your grandkids - and all events with the grandkids. Both of my stepkids ended up leaving their Mom's house when teenagers. That did not make us happy. It meant the conflict they felt resulted in a severed relationship with their mom, and we had to get counseling for them to get to where they were talking. You seem to be more worried about what your kids think about you than you should. You also seem to think they should really see that you are the hero and dad the jerk. Let that never be. They should be free to love you both, and they don't have to know he was a jerk. He might not be a jerk. He may not be giving you what you want, but you may be too self centered, too. Every lifetime partner has some big character deficits (you, too!). They all have habits that drive you nuts. "Men are big and gross," in the words of an author that has loved 3 (she's very elderly. The first was killed when young, the second died after many years of marriage). Having your focus on your image with the kids will keep you from being able to parent to a child's best interest. You have to do what is best for them no matter what they think. I made a tough parenting decision with one of my stepkids and she hated me for 4 years. It was still good for her, I'm glad I did it, and she is too. I'd advise that you get help to see if you are romanticizing what a life partner should be like. No one will live up to that. You won't. You can't. Real intimacy comes when we are confident we won't be thrown away when our faults are known. Our throw-away culture has stolen the freedom and comfort of being accepted as we are. When you look at the problems with divorce, maybe you'll find that staying together is worth the work. Not on him! It's so much easier to look at others to find fault...but looking in the mirror is the best thing for our own maturity and for those around us. Working on a relationship CAN be one sided. Try to do what is good for that person NO MATTER THEIR RESPONSE. Make it about them, not about you. Learn to be loving and mature when others aren't (you'll need the practice for dealing with teens). Look with realistic eyes at other men. We went through a few marriage groups, most useless. The best thing I learned is what I could never have tolerated in other husbands. Some might have great visible habits, or looks, or jobs...but privately mine went from jerk to jewel pretty quick. Maybe you'll stay together for the kids - and for you!

Redpiper: I could've been reading about myself when I read your post (most of it). First, I am sorry you are going through this. Second, know that you are not alone. My husband and I have been together for 8 years, married 5.5, and we have an amazing 2.5-year-old son. In August, I finally told him I wanted a divorce - after contemplating it for about a year-plus. I thought long and hard about it, and after marriage counseling and him going to anger management, decided it's best we move on with our lives and not live under the same roof anymore. He endangers my son's life, disrespects me in front of him, lies constantly and yells. We're not talking about someone who just doesn't help out with the kid (though I HAVE been calling myself a single parent since his birth because my husband was never around) - we're talking about a really unhealthy environment. So tell me, how can staying be the right choice? If it's not a healthy situation for me, how can it be good for my son? Anyone who says "stay for the kids" is living in the wrong decade. Not sure if you know this, but it's no longer taboo to divorce. When a marriage is beyond the point of repair - and it seems that yours is...and I know mine is - get out! I refuse to continue sending my son the wrong message that this is the way a marriage - or any relationship - should be. I grew up in a wonderful home with parents who loved each other so much that they oftentimes acted like teenagers - THAT'S what a marriage should be. So no, you do NOT stay together for the kids...unless you want to screw them up. Not to mention that someday, your kid(s) will grow up and move on with their life. Do you really want 10 or 15 years to go by, at which time you realize that you're alone with the spouse you dislike? Then what? Don't YOU deserve to be happy in your own life? I know I do, and I'm stronger than to stay in this situation. Best of luck, and know that you're doing the BEST thing for your children...

If you want a divorce....you can find lots of information to support that and you can find validation. However, I grew up in a household that ended in divorce after 30 years of marriage. I had a married sister at the time and my brother was in college and I was 12. We all had our own issues that resulted from our parents split. I think it was harder for me as I was the youngest. It was also hard financially for my brother as he was in college. I think it was hard on me as I was 12 and resent not having what they had growing up, which was basically good until my dad had a mid-life crisis after a heart attack. I can tell you that I had a friend whose parents were basically house-mates, but visibly no real marriage and she faired better than I . She still had the love of both parents daily and therein is the pudding! Be good to you kids! Don't convince yourselves that you are doing it for their best interest, because the "experts" are wrong on that one. My friend had more stability financially from both of her parents staying together. She also didn't have the stigma, back then it was more of a problem, of being from a broken-home. She also didn't have the same trust issues as I carried into my marriage. So.....you can think about YOU and CONVINCE YOURSELF that this is in the BEST INTEREST of your kids, but I can say....NO! This isn't about it being the year 2009 either....it's just that old common-sense that those are your kids and nobody is gonna love them or raise them better than the two parents that created them. Step-parents may have the best hearts in the world, but they are just that....steps. Is it really better to let your kids have all those others raise them.....NO! If it isn't a case of Abuse....then stay and work it out. Even affairs can be mended for the sake fo the kids. Love them and stop being such a disposible society. Don't teach your children that when it gets tough....you get going. Don't teach them that they can just change partners whenever it gets tough. Made your bed.....lie in it. Work on the present marriage and make it better. Or.....divorce....and get a new set of problems. The choice is yours. Oh, and the experts are not living your life or your childrens. You know what to do .....it's deep in your heart. Don't ask permission to leave.....you can leave your marriage.....however, your kids will have scars.

My parents never fought at home, and when they divorced after 17 years with 5 children, it was very hard. Both parents need to sit down and talk to their children (the five year old will understand the basics and I'm sorry to say the three year old probably won't remember too much). I could see at 15 that my mother wasn't happy, and when she was on her own she was a different person. We had some rough times, but now that I am older and have a child of my own, I can feel her frustration of a husband that really doesn't participate in the everyday tasks associated with raising a child. I often wonder why I am married, is love enough? The anger I feel toward his father is seen by my son, even though I try to hide it. The minimal time he spends with our son is NOT enough, in my husbands' eye there is only enough time to do what he needs to do and when he needs to do it....and our son is missing out on the kind of relationship he should have with his father. Fear of the unknown keeps me quiet, can I do it alone?will he blame me for pushing his father away? will I be happier? I don't know either, but I am heading in that direction too. I wish you and the kids the best of everything.

Here is a website offering information about and support during divorce. divorcesupport.about.com/od/thedivorceprocess/p/stepstodivorce.htm?nl=1 Perhaps the most important thing you can do for yourself and your children is work very hard to keep a positive relationship between the children and your ex. Even if he is willing to give up - don't share that with your kids. Just do your best to reassure them that both parents love them, care for them and that each parent has a different way of showing it. Remember that families who stay together disagree on things too; not to let the kids think they are the cause for disagreement between the parents. In our home, I made sure there were nightly phone calls with Dad, however brief. Always kept dialogue open about what Dad was or was not doing, my support for his right to have different opinions, ideas, and ways of doing things. Above all, my support for securing the proper education for my child, after school activities, making sure we volunteer in the community etc. Behind the scenes has been a nightmare in and out of court 9 years, causing loss of my business and most assets. My goal today is to help others avoid that kind of nightmare. Try not to let yourself be dumbed down or depressed by the cultural idea that you or your children are less entitled to participate in society because you are now a single mom. Yes, you may not receive the social invitations you once did, your kids may not have the same play dates, you won't have the same money... other parents are still afraid of divorce even when divorce is clearly the right thing to do. The health and well being of your children depends on the health of the environment in which they are raised. Be a scout leader, participate in school and community events, - be there with and for your kids. Welcome the dad at public and school events if he's willing, don't worry if he isn't. Yes, fake it if necessary. A healthy single mom is often a far better parent and role model than one who allows an unhealthy relationship to continue for society's sake. Above all - DON'T let traditional attorneys get to either of you. If you can find a collaborative law attorney, or you both agree to mediation, on distribution of assets, parenting schedules, education etc - always keeping the needs of the children first - you will all be happier lifelong. Staying out of court except to have your agreement blessed is the best thing you can do for your children. Successful families apart are those who pay attention to the kids, support each other's moving on. Attorneys are trained to be adversarial. They expect and generally demand a fight. They are out to "win". They generally do not look out for your children though are adept at language suggesting they do. They are often condescending, taking advantage of your lack of legal knowledge, negotiate away your rights and assets in the alleged interest of keeping your costs down. One trick is negotiate support based on today's circumstance not allowing for life changes - needs and life change. Keep the doors open. When working the traditional system, the parents are no longer parents of a family apart, they are "litigants". Attorneys in court are "siblings" referring to each other as brother and sister in front of the Judge (parent). You and your ex are not able to speak openly in court or explain your wishes for your children. Both parents give up so much by retaining traditional adversarial attorneys. The good news is, many are learning about collaborative law. More mediators are better trained, some states are offering workshops in do it yourself court proceedings wherein you negotiate your agreement together, then go to court to see if the Judge agrees it is in the best interest of the children. Take control of your divorce. Look up your state's support guidelines. As hard as it is working with your ex now, it will be better for all of you life long.

Hi let me start by saying I have raised three boys after a divorce and they are grown men now. From my actual experience I dont think a couple should divorce unless there is abuse. Someone said that divorce no longer has a stigma so why shouldn't you do it if your not happy?? ROFL To me that is exactly what is wrong with the world today and why our poor children( now remember I did it to my children too) are growing up with no sense of responsibility and no understanding of working hard to reach goals and being so self centered. We are teaching them it is ok to give up on your family cause your not happy. Not happy??? And the reason that our families and children are falling apart is because we all dont want to "judge" bad behavior in others so that no one will judge us when we do something wrong. Look how many parents abandon their children after divorce hardly or never seeing the children and not helping with their support. Why?? Because no one will judge them a bad person anymore. Who suffers? The children. Now are my grown sons murders or gang members or drug dealers??? NO but they have suffered and their relationship with their father has suffered because it will never be the same again because they dont live together. You both will make other families with or without other children and unfornuatly its usually the men who drop contact because it is alot easier to deal with whoevers children you are with at the time then trying to juggle all. Then of course there is the jealousy of new girl friend/wife and so on and so forth. Not having your kids at holidays or maybe explaining to them why their father doesnt see them on holidays. Trust me either way it is a big mess if you just think of the children. Now if you just think about how it will be easier for you and well Im not happy then you will probaly do it. But make no mistake your children will suffer. Also they will ask to go live with him at some point because they will want to know him better. And if he gets flaky in their lives then you can look forward to them taking their anger out on you because they know you wont leave and they will be afraid to voice it at him.( Kinda a backwards compliment) You know now when I get my panties all twisted at my husband ( and believe me my marriage is no picnic, I just remember this......picture a couple who has been together 30-40 whatever years..do you really believe that they dont have mornings at breakfast where they think to themselves( I could just smack you up side the head) the difference they have the wisdom to know this to shall pass if you are committed to your family. Notice I said family not husband. Alot of people talk about how can it be good for the children to see me unhappy. Children dont care if your happy or not. And if you act mature they wont see the fights and arguments. Even when my x and I were together we never dragged the children into it...thats just wrong And if the 2 of you cant get along and agree now a divorce wont make that better especially when the new girl friend/wife shows up. I was luckier than most I guess my sons are reasonable good citizens and my x didn't make new babies with someone else or re-marry...I could tell you my friends nightmares from those issues. But I listen to the things my sons say and to this day it affects them deeply. I wish you luck and of course this is really none of my bussiness...but you did come on a public forum and ask so................reconsider for your children.

I too am going through the same thing. I have 3 kids 7, 5, 8mths old. My husband has walked out on us. It is very difficult. Although I reinforce to our children that although daddy is not perfect he still loves them. I too resent what my husband has done. I want the best for my kids and I see the resentment building against their dad. I try to stay supportive for them, and try to keep it together myself but it is very difficult. You may want to consider taking your kids to counseling to help them deal with their new lifestyle. Maybe informing their teachers of what is going on at home if they are in school. I'm feeling my way through this too and have learned to lean on family and friends for support.

No advice, because that's something that you can only decide on your own...but you won't get support from me in your decision.

My husband left when our kids were 4 and 2. He just wasn't happy. I tried to get him to go to counseling, but he didn't put forth any effort. Turned out later, it wasn't so much that he was unhappy with me - he admitted he was just unhappy with himself and depressed, but at that point it was too late.

I have worked unbelievably hard to coparent with him, and he's worked just as hard (well, after the first six months, at least)...we were doing reasonably well until he remarried. Though we have 50/50 legal and physical custody, so I am required to run everything by him, and he is required to run everything by me, and I only call or text him when it is directly related to the kids, his wife resents my presence and this is affecting the kids. She is honestly a nice woman, but she's never dealt with step-parenting and isn't doing a very good job. She is jealous and hurt when he talks to me, even though she has absolutely no reason to be. Our kids are still only 7 and 9, and both have health issues, and we need to stay on the same page.

I watched my daughter cry, and my son get angry just the other day because they were trying and trying to call their dad to share good news about their report cards and he wouldn't pick up, because they were calling from my phone and their dad knew his wife would resent him answering.

My kids do NOT like having two homes, even though they are both great homes and they love their dad and they love me. They even really like their stepmom. They HATE having to go back and forth every 3 days. Clothes and toys they like aren't there when they want them, friends are too far away to visit, the rules are different in each house and they have trouble always remembering. Whey they are with their dad, they miss their dog and cat, and when they are with me, they miss their video games and big screen TV. They miss having their own rooms when they are with me, and they miss bedtime stories when they are with him.

You may divorce - but as long as you have kids you will never, ever get way from that other person or not have to deal with them.

If you're unhappy, only you can make yourself happy - but it doesn't have to be at the expense of your children and your marriage. I am positive that couples married 50 years weren't happy every day. It may sound corny, but get some counseling, take a class, take up a hobby. Grow up and understand that divorce will hurt your children.

If there is abuse, that's a completely different story - but it doesn't sound like that's the reason for your divorce.

So just curious, what is everyone's opinion (esp the people who think staying married is better except in cases of physical abuse) on a marriage situation and thoughts of divorce when one of the partners is a drug addict? Not a physical abuser of wife or kids, but an addict who has lied and used for several years when the other partner thought he was in recovery for many years? I know he is wanting to stay clean now, but of course addiction is a demon and sometimes desire to stay clean and honest isn't always enough to be able to actually do so...I am staying in now because I want to stay together for our toddler daughter, but I wonder if this is best for her. What if he relapses again? What if he endangers us again? But then again maybe this time he really will stay clean. It is so hard to know what is best. I can see both the "stay married" and "ok to divorce" sides' points.

It is best to devote to your vows and stay married if at all possible. Your vows did say "for better or worse", so to me, that would mean there WILL be some worse.
In your case, it sounds like your husband NEEDS you and your strength and combined that just might help him kick his addiction and keep him clean. Impress on him how much you want your daughter to know him without drugs effecting his thoughts and actions. Also tell him, if he continues to use, and EVER, EVER physically hurts you or your child, jail will be his only option. It does seem though, within what you wrote, that he doesn't want to disappoint you nor have your "faith" in him compromised and he must really care about your family, if he didn't why would he hide his relapse from you.
Maybe you could ask him how he would feel if your daughter used? That's his little girl and as a parent and someone supposed to love her, would he want that for her? Children have a tendency to learn and accept what they live, be it good or bad. Even if he isn't using in front of her (and I pray he isn't), she can still sense his change in attitude and everything else.
Tell him you would love more than anything for him to be around to "give her away" when she marries one day, but the drugs could make that impossible.
Most of all, put your love and faith in him and he will feed off that and hopefully want to quit using, not only for himself, but for his wife and daughter also!

My parents divorced when I was 17....so my situation is a little different. BUT A friend of mine grew up in a situation where her father was the dominant one and always messed with her mother's head and emotions. However, she always stayed for the kids. My friend is now 27 and guess what? She is in the the exact same situation. Her boyfriend is mentally abusive and she stays with him because she is scared to leave him. Go with your gut. If your gut tells you to leave him, leave him! You have a ton of people to stand behind you whether we really know you or not.

Thank you Anditc for the supportive and heartfelt response! Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but rest assured your words of wisdom have stayed in my head.