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Stinky dog with bad skin
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adopt_dont_shop posted:
Hi:

My 5-year-old mix breed spay had a severe case of generalized demodicosis as a pup, which was lasted until she was over a year old; I think this infection had some damaging effects on her skin, especially her sebaceous glands.

She has many non-inflammatory sebaceous papules dispersed around especially her head and neck region--occasionally on her back. My vet lanced one and after microscopic examination, found no inflammatory cells or abnormal microbial infection. Further, multiple skin scrapes were negative.

My vet prescribed benzoyl peroxide shampoo and also suggested using an antisebhorretic such as Head and Shoulders. After months of trying these, the skin condition has not cleared up, but it has also not gotten any worse.

These little pimples are not bothering her, are not increasing in size, density, or shape (e.g. they don't seem like lipomas) and I am willing to live with them on her skin if they are harmless. However, she has a musky odor, which I might presume is due to the abnormal accumulations of sebum turning rancid from oxidation.

If you feel that I might be correct, I was wondering what you might think of either oral or topical Vitamin E supplementation with the idea that Vitamin E is a powerful antioxidant and lipid soluble. I do not know the toxicity of Vitamin E to dogs, but if it is not toxic, that a topical spray/coat conditioner might prevent the oxidation of her skin oils and thus make her a little less smelly.

Thanks.
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adopt_dont_shop responded:
By the way, she is on Hill's Adult Mobility (for her bad knees), which contains, among other things, animal fat preserved with "mixed tocopherols" and has flaxseed oil, presumably for the omega-fatty acids.
 
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Home2strays replied to adopt_dont_shop's response:
Im only a vet tech but that seems reasonable that the smell is coming from there as long as she is otherwise healthy. I ll tell you what has helped my dog though (she has cushings disease and smelled yeasty and was constantly getting staph infections) is a supplement that I take. Its an oxidative stress reducer and has actual clinical studies in the governments library of health. The website I put up for it is www.lifevantage.com/bodyreboot though I dont have any animal videos on there, the pet product hasn't been put out by the company yet- though I hear they will have it by the beginning of next yr. My dog is a 16 yr old chow mix who had pulmonary hypertension, cushings, severe arthritis, and lymphoma. She still has bad arthritis and cushings but is off her PH meds because her breathing is fine and has lived 2 yrs with untreated lymphoma- thats over a yr and a half longer than what I was told. Shes been on this for just over a yr.
 
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adopt_dont_shop replied to Home2strays's response:
Thanks, Home2Strays. A skin swab and a smear of a lanced papule did not reveal the presence of yeast and no abnormal levels of staph were present--just a bunch of sebum.

Thanks for the link. I checked it out and the accompanying literature. This looks like an an antioxidant that will have effects inside the body's cells to prevent intracellular damage. Very exciting stuff!

What I think is going on is that the sebaceous secretions are oils in the fur that are turning rancid when they are exposed to the air. If this is actually what is going on, then an oil-soluble (lipophilic) antioxidant may prevent the skin oils from going rancid and reduce the smell. I know that Vitamin E is commonly used to preserve cooking oils, oil supplements such as Flax Seed Oil, etc.
 
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Home2strays replied to adopt_dont_shop's response:
It;s sort of like an antioxidant... its technically a Nrf2 activator (type nrf2 in wikipedia) I personally think it would help her, it's helped me and my dog and I love the stuff but do some research on it, the government has a website for the library of health where once a study is done, a panel of scientists try to disprove the study- if it cant be disproved it's put in the library. Go to www.pubmed.gov and type in ovidative stress and ______ whatever health issue she (or you even) have been diagnosed with. If there is a link then protandim is proven to reduce it 40-70%, sometimes that's enough to help the body overcome it the rest of the way.
 
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adopt_dont_shop replied to Home2strays's response:
Thanks for the reply, once again!

(my laptop crashed and this is the second time I have to write this)

According to the literature that they supply, the main action of the supplement was found to be the activation of two critical antioxidant enzymes that exist in most body cells: superoxide dismutase (SOD) and catalase. SOD converts superoxide (oxygen carrying an extra electron) to peroxide and oxygen; catalase converts peroxide to oxygen and water. Thus, this supplement appears to activate and enhance the body's natural mechanisms for eliminating free radicals that can damage the protein, cell membranes, and DNA of cells.

it seems that there are two problems with using this supplement for my dog's specific condition, which is that her impacted sebaceous glands are secreting oils (sebum) that are turning rancid, giving her a funky smell. (1) SOD, catalase, and nrf2 are enzymes that are water-soluble and exist within a cell's cytoplasm and within certain organelles such as lysosomes and would not be soluble in sebum; (2) sebum, once secreted out of the body is not intrinsically rancid. Rancidity occurs due to the oxidative damage by oxygen, UV light, and microbes living on the skin.

Thus a supplement that activates intracellular enzymes would probably have no effect on secretions once they leave the body. If a sebaceous gland is impacted, the sebum usually exists within the external components of the gland (the ducts and the secretory regions--the acini), not inside the cells themselves where the oils would be protected by the skin's natural antioxidant mechanisms.

That is why I inquired about the use of Vitamin E. Vitamin E is a powerful antioxidant and is lipophilic, and hyopthetically would dissolve itself into the skin oils, preventing them from turning rancid. I was also wondering if it is safe to give Vitamin E as a supplement and whether oral doses of Vitamin E would be secreted directly into the sebum, out of the skin, via the sebaceous glands, thus eliminating the need for a topical treatment. This is what I was hoping a vet could answer: if this treatment would be effective and safe, and at what dose should I keep the Vitamin E under to prevent toxicity.
 
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Home2strays replied to adopt_dont_shop's response:
I believe it's safe to give vit E, It may even be more helpful to put it topically? I was just thinking that protandim may decrease her having these gland issues altogether, help her body heal them/stop making them. The actual activator pill is fat soluble, some of the enzymes it upregulates are water soluble- sod and catalase are the one it upregulates the most but it effects over 200 enzymes. This comment will bump the post up to the top again and hopefully a vet will weigh in on if the vit e will help or if oxidative stress plays a role in your dogs issue.
 
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adopt_dont_shop replied to Home2strays's response:
Thanks! I hope a vet will be able to chime in.
 
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Jenny74 replied to Home2strays's response:
Hello-

My dog has recently been diagnosed with Lymphoma and I wanted to here your experience with Protandim in regards to your dog and her health conditions.

thanks,

Jenny
 
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SirRahikkala responded:
I wish that this advice is not too late but I will post it anyway if any other has similar skin issues with their dogs.

At the moment, I have two whippets and other had issues with food/digestion/nutrition and that resulted into skin and fur issues. Fat lumps, flaky skin and shedding fur. I started looking into dog food packages and their ingredient lists and noticed one important fact. The dogs where not getting enough fats. I started adding salmon oil to their food which immediately helped a little so I dug in deeper. I found more info at www.oilfordogs.com information site and learned that it's quite common to have not enough fatty acids in dogs food. I have now been using krill oil along with dog food products when I am not offering them "real food". I works miracles!
 
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adopt_dont_shop replied to SirRahikkala's response:
I completely forgot about this thread, but WebMD sent me an email. Thanks for the info. For my dog, I used an antiseborrheic/benzoyl peroxide dog shampoo and have been supplmenting her with Welactin (omega-3 supplements from Nutramax). Her skin has since cleared up.


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