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    Keeping a "relationship" journal....ladies advice needed
    An_252622 posted:
    DW and I have been married for a little over 10 yrs. Our marriage like most has ups and downs. For us it's getting each others "needs" met. For her it's connecting physically without sex...touching holding hands hugs ect. For me, it's sex. I've always tried to live by the idea that if you aren't getting what you want try giving a little more or you can have anything you want as long as you help others get what they want. So every 3 months or so we have another conversation on how and why we arent meeting each others needs. I told her that eveytime we have this talk I change but as time goes on I don't get what I need and tend to pull back a little. DW tends to remember the last thing that happened without much thought on wks or months before that. This last time she said we we don't talk anymore and we just sit on the couch on our smart phones watching tv. Since the talk I have not had my phone on the couch while she continues to look at and use hers. If she comes in the room and I have my phone I get up and put it away. We live a pretty busy schedule as I do travel for work and she worksout alot. She would come home for work, go to the back for about 30 mins to get ready to workout come back up spend time with me and the kids for about 10 mins then off to workout. By time she gets back if I don't have one of our two kids in bed, she eats and puts one down (or vise versa) I put down the other then it's time for bed. There have been times that I come back from putting one of our kids down, poke my head in the bedroom and see the tv is on so I go around turn all the lights out and by time I get in bed to watch tv with DW all the lights are out along with the tv. Some nights I go to bed early to spend time with her and watch tv...but on those nights she wants to stay up for a bit. I strated keeping a journal with little keys or codes on my calandar on things I have done for her to meet her needs and things she has done to meet mine. Durning her cycle nothing happens sexually. Not by my choice but hers. Every blue moon their is some oral pleasure for me durning that time but not too often.

    So after our talk at the end of the month we both said we would try again! She said don't expect things to happen over night I said I won't. She was on her cycle and she hooked me up. I started to make my changes and send texts on how I love her, hugs for no reason ect. She comes home from workouts and is tired or she says her stomach hurts ect. This past wk she said she thinknshe is about to start again but it hasnt even been a month yet i feel like she is dropping hits that its not a good time In the past my wife has told me no to sex but hasn't recently Now i feel as if she is with me becuase she is suppose to not because she wants too in my opinion thasts almost as bad as saying no I haven't tried b/c I'm trying to not always be about sex and meet her needs. Since I feel as she is dropping hints on tonight is not a good night I continue to try to meet her needs but feel the same patterns are taking place. Ladies how would you feel if you were presented with a journal on what was going on. I know it looks like I'm keeping tabs but since this is a cycle that has happened in the past not sure how else to approach. Also, how do I look at the whole cycle thing, or tired or stomach hurting even after things seemed to be okay for her workouts going to bed early or late different times than me

    Sorry if in all over the map just confused.
    fcl responded:
    I would absolutely HATE being presented with a journal. I might even be angry. I would take it as you trying to make me into someone that YOU want but that is not me.

    Look, you've talked and talked and talked and still come back to the same situation. Maybe it's time to accept that you have different sex drives and different fantasies and learn to live with them?

    Having said that I would also ban all phones after 8pm and get rid of the TV in the bedroom (there are few things that put a damper on a sex life like a TV in the bedroom). I might also go as far as to consider spending a whole week without the TV (no matter which room it is in) and see what happens.
    There's nothing inherently dirty about sex, but if you try real hard and use your imagination you can overcome that.
    Anon_79663 replied to fcl's response:
    you are right. Mentally I always knew I shouldn't show it to her but guess I was doing it for my own sanity. We kind of got into it again last night. Over the last few days she had been complaining of her stomach hurting and possible spotting, but said that even if we weren't together tonight (yesterday) that she would still take care of me. I haven't asked for sex or even attempted sex over last 2-3 wks to show that it's not all about sex for me and I wanted to make sure she felt close to me to have sex with me. So after work we both get home She picked up one of our kids i picked up the other along with something to eat for both of them. Get home and she is getting ready to workout. Spends about 10-15 mins with us then she leaves around 615 I feed the kids, get their homework done,clean the kitchen and play with the kids and make something for her to eat when she gets home. Because one of our kids wasn't in bed by 730 she came in with a little attitude. I put one down and she put down the other and she ate and we watched tv. After an hour or so I say I'm going to go lie down and she says she needs to stay up for a bit b/c she just ate. She comes to bed about 30 mins later and gets in bed and we watch tv for another 30 mins. She then asks if I want to cuddle and said sure. She starts to fall asleep. She wakes up and asks if I will "be okay" and I said I guess. (be okay is code for its not happening tonight). In the back of my minded I knew nothing was going to happen. I say I guess. I then said I was going to go play my PS3. She asked me what was wrong and I said we are falling back into it and if you don't see it your blind. She said she did, and she still planned on taking care of me but since she came home and one of the kids wasn't in bed it got her out of the mood. I said since our last talk,I've done everything you asked and she said she knows and she appriciate it but it seems you don't care that I'm spotting. I said of course I do and I haven't tried to be with you but you said one thing this morning, talked about how your stomach hurts and all yet you still feel okay to go workout. You get in bed, in the past when I asked you to cuddle you say your too tired to cuddle yet tonight all of a sudden you want to cuddle and fall asleep. You have all the energy in the world to workout and go out but when it comes to having energy for me your tired. At that point one of our kids climbed into bed I got up and plaued my video game. And before you jump on me I play my video games maybe once or twice a month after everyone is sleep to nit take time away from my family.

    I just feel my wife is selfish (aren't we all at times) but also lazy when it comes to being with me.
    dfromspencer replied to Anon_79663's response:
    Dude, after reading both of your posts, and i'm sorry I am not a woman, but wow!!! Do you listen to yourself? Sure, you keep the journal, but do you understand what this cycle really is? If she has all this energy to go "Work Out", then comes home with none, doesn't that sorta tell you something? It sounds like she has her own code word for sex? "Work Out"??? Just sayin!!!

    All I can say is, it sounds that way to me, I am just an observer from your P.O.V., not hers! So, you have to be the one that figures that one out yourself! I hope and pray you guys stay together, but everyone needs to have their needs met, just like you say. You are doing everything she wants, and she does nothing for you, does that not hit you between the eyes? I'm sorry, like I said, I am not there to go check out what she really does when she says, "Work Out"? What ever IT is, it is wearing her out to the point of not helping you at all!!!

    I wish you success in your marriage!!! Get help, professional help, quick!!!

    rohvannyn replied to dfromspencer's response:
    Honestly, I think it's simpler than that. The wife sounds overworked. Having a family and a job and still staying healthy takes a lot of energy. She could be having some problem with depression too. That can make us very selfish. I'm not excusing her behavior but looking for causes. For many of us, if we feel overworked our libido goes to nil and all we want is an excuse not to have to do it. I hope things work out.

    'Your focus determines your reality.' --QGJ
    Anon_79663 replied to dfromspencer's response:
    No need to apologize I posted here for thoughts. I don't think it's that, as many of the people she works out with I know and even if it slipped by one or two surely someone out of 15-20 people would pull me aside. I think it's the fact that she isn't "in love" with me. I have asked her if that's the case and she says no. I'm not asking for 3somes or anything crazy just take care of me and dress in somethng sexy every nice in a while to bed.
    Anon_79663 replied to rohvannyn's response:
    Thought about depressin as well. Before when she wasn't working out she was tired for everything even before we had kids. Now she is just tired for me. We did get some bloodwork done and everything. Came back fine. I kinds of wish it was that then at least we would know. As I mentioned in previous post I just think sheis not in love with me.
    fcl replied to rohvannyn's response:
    Yes, she may be overworked but ... she's apparently not doing very much looking after her family. She comes home, goes to the gym, and expects everything to be done when she comes home. Maybe it's time to reconsider her priorities?

    I think this couple could do with a good dose of counselling to reconnect and to get communicating again because there's a huge communication breakdown when you feel the need to keep a journal to make a point ... They need a neutral third party to help them get back on track - counselling.
    There's nothing inherently dirty about sex, but if you try real hard and use your imagination you can overcome that.
    queston replied to fcl's response:
    A few years ago, my wife and I saw a counselor. She asked if we fight (yes, of course--we're seeing a marriage counselor, after all). She asks if we have sex (not very often). She asks if we take walks together or do other things (eat breakfast, whatever). Again, not all that much. We started deliberately doing things together, just me and her, other than arguing. It helped a lot.

    Your wife's emphasis on "cuddling" could sort of be her code for not wanting sex, but I think it's more likely that what she really wants is not just the physical affection but companionship with you. It also sounds to me from your description like you have relatively little family time. For example, it sounds like you don't eat family meals.

    I agree that counseling would be a good idea. Your wife seems a little detached from the family (working out seems to be an escape for her), and you seem well on your way toward bitterness and resentment. Trust me, those emotions will tear you up and spit you out. I have been there.
    fcl replied to queston's response:
    Queston, your last paragraph sums up exactly what I was thinking (only better ). I couldn't agree more.
    There's nothing inherently dirty about sex, but if you try real hard and use your imagination you can overcome that.
    Leslie Becker-Phelps, PhD replied to fcl's response:
    Given that your conversations don't seem to be moving you in a good direction, I also suggest that you consider seeing a couple therapist. This person can help figure out the problem or problems (e.g. depression, unexpressed feelings, mismatched sex drive) and help you find resolution.

    (I also wonder whether there is a physical problem because of her spotting and having stomach pain- especially if there seems to be ongoing problems with these.)
    Leslie Becker-Phelps, PhD replied to fcl's response:
    Given that your conversations don't seem to be moving you in a good direction, I also suggest that you consider seeing a couple therapist. This person can help figure out the problem or problems (e.g. depression, unexpressed feelings, mismatched sex drive) and help you find resolution.

    (I also wonder whether there is a physical problem because of her spotting and having stomach pain- especially if these are ongoing issues.)
    An_252622 replied to Leslie Becker-Phelps, PhD's response:
    Just a quick update. We had a bit of a scare with test results showed abnormal cells which played a part in spotting and possible pain durning sex. Thought it was cervical cancer but test came back negative so we are thankful for that. This past weekend we went out (we continually have date night 2x a month) she got pretty lit which I don't mind as I like to see her have fun. Only wish it would bring more of her sexual side out which it doesn't and continues to be my "need" that's not getting met. Anyway it's about 2 in the morning an I am ready to go, she doesn't, keeps mingling being the social butterfly. Finally got her to leave and we go home. Nothing happens for me and we go to bed. The next day we wake up and she asked what's my problem as I was in a bad mood. Before I could answer she said are you mad I had too much to drink. I said I am mad that you don't respect me. Any other couple would respect their spouse enough to leave when they are ready to go. She didn't respond. And I continued that nothing has changed for us. I have been trying to give you what you need for me to get what I need. We haven't had sex in close to 3 months and you haven't touched me in close to 2 months. She responded that the day gets away things happen and we get busy. I told her not busy enough to use her toy in the morning. She didn't respond. About a month ago she left her wedding ring at a GF house after a night out with. She has had a number of chacnes to get it back. They do live a bit apart but still have seen each other a few times to get it back. So I also told her that I am not wearing my weeding ring until she finds it important to get hers back. It feels weird not wearing my ring as I never takenitnoff unless I'm doing a phiscally atcitivy. She really didn't have much to say for the rest of the day. I tried to go about the day as any other Sunday watched football mad e snacks, grilled ect. I turned in early thinking that she would take it as a clue to come to bed, but she choose to stay up and watch the game. Game was on in the back...there have been times I go to bed early and she stayed up or me stay up and she goes to bed early. I've even gone to bed early and have her stay up. I come back out to watch tv and spend time and she goes to bed 10 mins later. I started saying that we need to eat together as a family and her response was we can sometimes. We do but not with her suggestion but mine. Even when she doesn't eat with us because she is working out I still eat with my kids. When I travel she sends the kids to the back to eat. I haven't suggested counseling again as my thought is we are communication on our needs but only one of us is taking action to meet the others needs. Will a 3rd party really make her take steps? Isn't that somethng you WANT to do instead of having someone MAKE you do them.
    rohvannyn replied to An_252622's response:
    You really do have to want to make a change before you can. Have you tried just asking her flat out, "do you want to stay married with me?" If the answer is yes, then perhaps the follow up question of "then why do you keep acting like you don't?" Maybe you can get her to understand that her behavior is not only sending the clear message that she doesn't care, but also that she doesn't want to be with you.

    'Your focus determines your reality.' --QGJ
    fcl replied to An_252622's response:
    When you were ready to leave the other night, did you actually explicitly say so or did you expect her to "understand" that you wanted to leave?

    " I turned in early thinking that she would take it as a clue to come to bed"

    If you don't say that you want her to come to bed you can't expect her to read your mind. Don't you think you might be being passive-aggressive with her?

    YES, I definitely think that counselling could help your communication. You may be communicating but you sound so full of pent-up anger that you may not be getting your message across.
    There's nothing inherently dirty about sex, but if you try real hard and use your imagination you can overcome that.

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