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    I'm angry
    Dasiaw posted:
    I'm in my late 20s and have never had a girlfriend, had sex, or kissed a woman. Over the years I've gone places to socialize, asked different women out, tried several websites for meeting women, taken suggestions for how to improve myself, challenged myself, etc., and I've never met a woman who liked me. At this point, I don't know what woman is going to be interested in a man who has absolutely no experience with adult relationships or sex either.

    Since I was very young, people have told me I'm handsome, smart, interesting, make them laugh, etc., but these days I resent being told that because if any of it were true, at least one woman would've liked me. I've always been independent, and there aren't any places I can go to and belong, and meet women. Please don't suggest I try that again because I am who I am, I know what I like, and if 15 years of honest effort in getting to know different women have failed, how can you tell me it would be any different the next time, especially somewhere I don't even want to be?

    15 years is three different presidents, from the end of Clinton's second term, through both of Bush's terms, and now well into Obama's term. 15 years is a kid being born, learning to walk, having a first day of school, going through elementary and middle school, learning the facts of life, starting high school, and experimenting with relationships. 15 years is a long damn time.

    For much of my life I've told myself if they don't want me then I don't want them, but that stopped helping me feel better years ago because all human beings get lonely. I might seem like I'm feeling sorry for myself but by this point I've earned it. I'm angry, and if I try again and get rejected, that'll just throw more fuel on the fire. I have an answer for everything so if you do post advice, I have to tell you I'll more than likely shoot it down.

    I'm making decent money these days, saving up for a Corvette and for traveling again. I'm a citizen of the European Union, as I'm originally from one of those countries, as well as in North America, and there are places in the EU where I speak the language fluently and can legally pay for sex in an industry that regulates its safety. Simply put, I plan on booking call girls in the near future so I can finally kiss a woman and have sex. Please don't tell me it's unsafe because I'm very familiar with how the system works there.

    I know this has nothing to do with a relationship, but I do have a high sex drive, which I believe I could've used to help please a woman in a relationship, and I like the idea of having sex with who I want when I want, and satisfy that need for myself. Please don't tell me I see women as objects here because anyone who knows me will tell you that isn't true, and that I respect whatever choices a woman makes for herself, including if they reject me.

    So, please tell me I shouldn't make a life for myself that other men envy, being single, having the time to stay in better physical shape than any of my coworkers, keeping all the good money I make for myself, and being able to afford riding around in a Corvette as well as legal regular enough sex with beautiful women? I'm serious. I feel completely inadequate and angry for having been rejected for as long as I have been, and what I've described is my plan, but I'd genuinely like to know if anyone has a better idea for me as far as relationships after 15 years of the same painful thing.
    dfromspencer responded:
    Wow! How can anyone reply to that? If what you say is true, and no woman has liked you for you, then, WOW! There is only one thing i can say to you, stay true to who you are. Don't try and be someone you are not, they will fall for that made up person. On the other hand, if no one woman has liked you enough for a relationship, then you have to keep trying to become the person they will fall for.

    I really feel sorry for you, all these years of trying, and failing, cannot be good for a person. Keep a possitive attitude, and hopefully, things will change when they see you in a corvette?

    Good luck to you, Dennis
    Dasiaw replied to dfromspencer's response:
    Thanks Dennis, but you need not feel sorry for me. I've got that covered. I haven't had much difficulty staying true to who I am in life, but what you say about keeping a positive attitude feels near impossible to me because I don't have anything to base that on. I'm not a negative person in general, for example I'm very positive about other aspects of my life like how I'm one of the best at the job I do. If my Corvette, which is strictly for me, somehow makes all the difference in the world (there are guys who drive rustbuckets who have no problem with women), then at that point I may've gone through a slew of call girls anyway and saying to any interested women, "I'm sorry you feel that way. If you'd met me around ten years ago you would've met someone different, ready to be a mature, giving, and adventurous boyfriend."
    KittieBunnie responded:
    I say go for it. Book youself a date.Be safe. Have fun. Immediately!

    It sounds like you've built up some anger and a little anxiety as time has ticked by without any results. You just need to get laid. It'll make you feel better. And once you have some experience, you may just loosen up and be more comfortable in your everyday contact with women. Confidence is sexy!

    I'll just bet that if you tell one of your paid dates that you don't have much/any experience, she'll be happy to play teacher to your student! Heck, I have a 50 year old bf with lots of experience and I've taught him a few things. You're never too old to learn, experience, enjoy!

    Oh....and get the car. Not sure if it'll attract women. You'll turn a lot of heads, but it'll mostly be guys checkin out your car. I have a Camaro, and I've never turned a woman's head. LOL. At the very least, you'll make a lot of guys jealous. And it'll make you feel so good!
    fcl responded:
    I'd say that if you are all of the things you say you are (and even if you weren't) that there is a bug somewhere. There has to be a reason you're getting rejected and it's not always easy to sort out. Have you considered seeing a counsellor to try and identify in what way you are sending out the wrong vibes? Or in what way you are choosing women who are unsuitable for you? Or ... goodness there are so many potential reasons.

    Another thought - Do you have any close female friends who might be willing to discuss this with you? To role play with you to get to the root of this?
    There's nothing inherently dirty about sex, but if you try real hard and use your imagination you can overcome that.
    Leslie Becker-Phelps, PhD responded:
    Dasiaw, I'm sorry for what you are going through. Feeling that alone and like there is some basic flaw in you that you can't figure out are beyond awful feelings. This, by the way, isn't pity. It's compassion -- these are feelings we all have at some point, but you are having them now and are having way more than your share of them. On the other hand, you have an incredible sense of yourself and value in being genuinely yourself. Though these things don't fix your situation, they are wonderful qualities. (I'm guessing you might somehow discount all this. That's ok. It can be hard to take in or really feel any of the good stuff when you feel so badly.)

    In answer to your question about a better idea for you, I have to agree with FCL. There is a problem that you need to identify and then work to solve; and a therapist (one who is experienced, who really gets you, and who you believe is capable) is the person to turn to for help with this. FCL's idea of asking a female friend is a good idea, too; but I suspect that a therapist could still be helpful in working with you to overcome this problem.
    Dasiaw replied to fcl's response:
    A lot of people have told me over the years that my being rejected is my fault, and I've often taken their advice to help improve myself. As for the women I've approached in all that time, how could I know whether they were suitable for me? They each had different backgrounds, different interests, different beliefs, and the one thing they all seemed to have in common was they weren't interested in me.

    Do you really think there's one specific reason that hasn't changed since I was in middle school that has repelled every single girl/woman I've approached equally? To me, that sounds like having a disease.
    Dasiaw replied to Leslie Becker-Phelps, PhD's response:
    Thanks for your reply, and I can tell you my problem now, after all these years, is being too angry to want to try again. I don't actually want a girlfriend because I like the way I live my life single, but after all this time it would've been nice to be considered worth it. When I see attractive women these days the thought that automatically goes to my head is, "Don't bother, she won't want you," and what evidence do I have that says the opposite is possible? If she turns me down like all these others, that's going to keep me angry, and how much more can I do that to myself?

    Actually, here's the reason that accounts for 15 years of rejection, and I can't change it about myself: I'm not from around here. I've lived in this country more than 15 years now, but like everywhere else I've lived, I've always been from far away, and people don't like that. People might think I'm so wonderful and interesting, but that doesn't mean they think they can relate to me, or that they'd want to.

    I do have a therapist, but this is embarrassing to bring up with anybody. I don't have any female friends right now either, and not that many male friends, as I've gotten so used having to be my own friend over the years. My last female friend was very self-involved, and I don't tolerate that sort of thing from anyone for very long. Again, with so many different women over the years, you think at least one would've thought I don't have a problem. I'm not a superstitious person but much of the time I can't help believing there's a curse on me, for something I must've done wrong in life, or something.
    Dasiaw replied to KittieBunnie's response:
    Well, I'd be the only man on the road in a Corvette who's well under the age of 50, for sure, and the car's for me rather than anyone else, I've always liked them. Anyway, I think that's what it'll come to for me, booking dates, if more of the same and any other suggestions don't work between now and then. It would be a nice change of pace, a guarantee for a change, and that's honestly the way I see things going, and am trying to get excited about it.

    Question though, even if I gain more confidence from these experiences, what woman will be interested in a man whose only relationships have been with call girls? Don't so many women want to see a man's been in serious relationships before, so that he could have a mature and adult relationship with them? I'm not actually sure why I'm asking with how little I care about that right now.
    Kloudnine replied to Dasiaw's response:
    Ok, I am going to take a stab at this and reply...I agree with a few others on here when they say that there may be some deep rooted issue that needs to be resolved. There may be reasons that for 15 years, all of these women have been not interested or rejecting you, or you feel they're rejecting you...any maybe it's just a matter of it's not you, it's them, and the fact that you both are not compatible, or it's just a matter of bad timing. It could be a number of possibilities. I find myself in the same boat, on numerous occasions, and often blame myself for it happening over and over again. But one thing I have come to terms with, is it is NOT always me, and that I can't sit there and overthink the situation...I just need to move on. While most people do not want to be rejected, and do not take rejection well, it is something that happens, it's a part of life, you need to learn to deal with it. I think it would be great to sit down and talk with a therapist. It may help to get someone else's perspective on things.

    One thing I guess I do not understand is that you say you don't want a girlfriend, and that you are content with being single, then why does this bother you so much? If your intention is to have an experience with a call girl, then do so, and call it a day, but deep down, I don't think that is what you really want.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with you, I think it is the people that you are surrounding yourself with, and the women that you choose to approach. I also think that people are initimidated by the idea of you being a virgin, and that is not a bad thing. I personally think it is great, and I give you credit for that...I admire you for it. Not many people can say that. If I were you, I would hold out and not do the call girl thing for the experience, I would hold out for the woman that you choose to be with, and the woman that is worthy of you. It is going to be the greatest experience when it does happen, and especially with someone that means something to you. I don't think that you should have that first experience with a call girl that does not mean anything. You really do sound like a great person, and I think that any woman would be lucky to have you. You sound very responsible, independent, intelligent, and confident in what you do, and believe it or not, those are a hard combination of qualities to find in one person. Not to sound conceited, but I feel that I posess those qualities as well, and you should be proud of that. The confidence that you have in yourself shows on the outside, and people of the opposite sex are attracted to that. I don't think that buying a Corvette will attract a woman, and if it does, it's only going to attract the wrong kind of woman. I always thought that I was cursed as well because of the things I have been through relationship wise, and here I am again..struggling....but I am starting to realize that it's not me, it's the people that I surround myself I said, I think that is part of the problem for you as well.

    Keep your head up, and do what you feel is right for you. Don't settle for any less than you deserve, and don't be so hard on yourself. Things happen for a reason, at least that is what I believe. I know it's not easy to listen to others tell you that the "right one" will come along for you..heck, I am tired of hearing that myself. I have learned to live alone and be single, and I am content with it for now, but then again, it would be nice to have a partner to share my life with too. Best of luck to you...
    fcl replied to Dasiaw's response:
    " I've lived in this country more than 15 years now, but like everywhere else I've lived, I've always been from far away, and people don't like that."

    I don't really get why you would say that. Do you go out of your way to BE different or do you try to blend, to integrate? I ask because I don't live in the country where I was born either, nor in a country where they speak my mother tongue ... and I've seen the difference that integration or not can make. It isn't so much that people don't like that you come from far away, it's more that (possibly due to you pointing out your difference, possibly not) they feel that you are just a visitor, just passing through or that you might be going back to where you came from any day now ...

    I really don't understand why you think that being from "far away" that nobody can relate to you. Perhaps this very assumption is pushing people away ... People can sense when someone feels like an outsider.

    Tell me, the people who say that it's your own fault, do they at least have a reason for saying that? Do they tell you what it is? Or do they just say that because they haven't a clue and don't know what else to say?
    There's nothing inherently dirty about sex, but if you try real hard and use your imagination you can overcome that.
    fcl replied to Dasiaw's response:
    "Don't bother, she won't want you,"

    At what point did you start to think like this? After how many rejections? How long ago?

    "I do have a therapist, but this is embarrassing to bring up with anybody."

    Please, please, please try to get over your embarrassment. Your therapist has heard much worse things before - trust me. Also, I would wonder about the wisdom of paying a therapist that I cannot tell everything to. Why hide things? Who knows what is interconnected? I really would encourage you to be perfectly open and honest with your therapist.
    There's nothing inherently dirty about sex, but if you try real hard and use your imagination you can overcome that.
    Dasiaw replied to fcl's response:
    I'm only speaking from my own experience, not assumptions, and to me it sounds like we've simply had different experiences as far as living in places that aren't where we're originally from. To answer your question, someone who'd say it was my fault for being rejected might say something like what you wrote here, that people can sense when someone feels like an outsider. I've been told people probably sensed any of several negative qualities on me.

    We all have intuitions, and maybe people can sense a bit of angst on me here and there, but that's normal because none of us is completely stable inside. If people can sense these kinds of things on me, why are they not sensing the positives as well? Why couldn't they sense that I'm imaginative, or that I have guts, or any kind of warmth as well? What about these men who beat women to death? Could nobody sense their negativity going in?
    Dasiaw replied to fcl's response:
    I do cover a lot with my therapist, but I definitely agree with you that I need to cover more, thank you.

    Before I answer your question about for how long I've thought that way, why do you think it matters? It definitely wasn't 14 years about out the the 15, I can tell you that.
    Dasiaw replied to Kloudnine's response:
    When I said I was content being single, not being as interested in having a girlfriend at this point, my anger comes from 15 years of not being considered good enough. If I could look back and remember there were women who would've been interested in a relationship with me, even if we didn't end up together, I believe I'd feel a whole lot less angry.

    Also, I don't go around telling people I'm a virgin. For all anyone I work with knows, for example, I'm no different than they are in their romantic/sex lives. Why would they suspect that? In addition, I wouldn't what people would be the right ones to surround myself with. Maybe I would rather share my life with a partner the way you say you would, I really can't tell that about myself, but unless I bump into someone who comes to mean something to me, as I'm not desperate to go looking, then I do see myself with call girls. Those experiences won't have the same meaning as what you're talking about, but I've never had such experiences to compare them to, maybe you have, and it will be a simple arrangement, where we both get what we want without mind games and such.

    Like you said, I believe I deserve more than 15 years of being made to feel I'm not good enough. I know I'm good enough for me, and if I'm going to be passed over, over and over, then I deserve to treat myself to some adventure, which is probably better than what might end up being stuck in a marriage that becomes loveless in no time with not enough money to support the kids.

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