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An_250150 posted:
what is the best over the counter drug out there that close to cialis,levitra, or viagra.
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georgiagail responded:
None. These remain prescription medications.

Gail
 
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dfromspencer responded:
There are a lot of people swearing by some herbs, but most, if not all doctors will tell you, the best tried and true meds are the Levitra, Cialis, or Viagra!!!


Be very very careful of just what internet sites/stores try to sell you!!!


Go to your doctor, that is what he is there for!!! Don't be shy, he has heard/sean it all before! Rest assured, he is not going to judge you by the size of your junk, no, he will judge you by your smarts for seeing him!!! True!!!


Good luck, I hope you see your doctor?!!!


Dennis
 
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kramer1961 replied to dfromspencer's response:
A very low fat vegetarian diet would likely be much more effective than some voodoo herbs off of the shelf. Animal fat and protein in the diet causes arteries to contract. Its a physical effect that lasts for hours at a time, and its the reason that Viagra recommends you wait more than 2 hours after a meal to take it.

As you get older and the burgers and fries build up plaque in your arteries, you suffer even more as your arteries start out smaller, and constrict still more with the next Big Mac.

This isn't a message anyone is much interested in hearing, but its God's truth.

kram
 
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georgiagail replied to kramer1961's response:
The real reason for the recommendation to wait two hours after a meal to take Viagra has nothing to do with arteries contracting (and saturated fat may cause plaque build up but arteries normally "contract" and expand to push blood through them).

The consumption of fat (any type; not just animal fat) slows down the absorption of this medication from the small intestine. Thus, the response to the medication takes longer after a high fat meal.

Gail
 
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kramer1961 replied to georgiagail's response:
I'm sure you are correct Gail, as far as you go, but since fat in the blood stream does contract arteries, and since that contraction is the opposite of what nitric acid is doing, I think my point holds well enough.

kram
 
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kramer1961 replied to kramer1961's response:
In addition, its been my personal experience that a very low fat vegan meal doesn't seem to impede the effectiveness of the drug. Furthermore, the first sex manual I ever got (from my Mother no less) indicated that high amounts of meat and fat can impede erection. That was back in the late 60's which I think showed some real insight.

kram
 
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fcl replied to kramer1961's response:
I don't think she was arguing with that. Her point was to explain how the drug worked and the reason why you are told to wait until 2 hours after a meal.
There's nothing inherently dirty about sex, but if you try real hard and use your imagination you can overcome that.
 
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georgiagail replied to fcl's response:
fcl is correct. If you consume a low fat meal (vegan or not) prior to taking this medication, the absorption rate will be increased as opposed to following the consumption of a high fat meal.

It is a mistake to assume that all vegan diets are low in fat. There are all levels of veganism, ranging from those who believe they are vegans because they avoid beef or pork (while consuming fish and chicken) to those who avoid meats but consume eggs and dairy products to those who avoid all animal products but may still be consuming a fair amount of fat from vegetable oils.

Gail
 
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kramer1961 replied to fcl's response:
Yes quite, but not quite; she didn't explain how the drug worked, she explained how the drug is absorbed, which is perfectly true as far as it goes.

I pointed out...and you can look it up in the wikipedia listing for viagra...that a HIGH FAT meal is specifically indicated to impede absorbtion.

The actual function of Viagra though is to increase blood flow, and a high fat meal especially one with animal fat and protein also causes contraction of arteries, thus impeding the function further. Look up, "brachial artery tourniquet test".

You can have a hearty meal of rice, and green vegetables however (without any oil), take viagra, and find the function of viagra isn't affected significantly.
kram
 
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kramer1961 replied to georgiagail's response:
FCL didn't make that point, I did, and I specifically stated that the diet necessary to avoid impeding absorption is a very low fat vegan diet without any animal fat or animal protein. Oil of any kind has a negative impact on the endothelium.

My point is that there are two processes at work here; one is absorption and conversion of the drug, and the second is that the fat and animal protein in the immediate diet impedes the actual function of the drug by countering the effect of increased blood flow since the endothelium reacts negatively.

kram
 
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dfromspencer replied to kramer1961's response:
Hi Kram,


I did in fact try that experiment! One day, when I was ready to have some fun, I went with a low fat meal, still waited the two hours, then took the pill. The effects were sooner, and so strong, it hurt. My erection actually hurt.


The next time, I had a high fat meal to include steak, and fries. I waited the two hours, then took the pill. The effects were a long time coming, and the erection was just so so. When I did the act, I couldn't even finish because my erection went away. I tried again later, and had the same response.


Yep, it would seem, at least to me, that Kram has a point! There is indeed a different effect for the high fat diet! Probably why I keep my fat intake to a minimum? Exercise regularly, and see my doctor on a regular basis!!!


Good sexual health, everyone!!!


D.
 
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georgiagail replied to dfromspencer's response:
The "point" is that the fat content of the meal impedes absorption from the gut, not the arteries.

Gail
 
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kramer1961 replied to georgiagail's response:
That is true Gail, its simply not the whole picture. The reason we even need Viagra is because our arteries are narrowed, and they are further narrowed (for many hours) after a high fat meal.

The function of Viagra isn't merely to be absorbed, That is only its path to the blood stream. the function is to improve blood flow to the penis. Originally it was developed as a medication for angina, and the improvement in erection function was a side effect.

Many men might see a dramatic improvement in erection with no Viagra at all if they maintained an extreme low fat diet that included no meat or oil. In fact, reversal of atherosclerosis is possible this way, although I'm the first to acknowledge that the regimen is a difficult one for most.

kram
 
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kramer1961 replied to dfromspencer's response:
Yes D, that is how it works. Interestingly, if you abstain from oil, and animal foods entirely, in about 30 days you may notice a significant increase in erection without any medication. Over time if you reverse, you may find you don't need it at all, although if you're like me, its great insurance.

On a very low fat vegan diet you're going to find yourself cutting down your viagra dose. When I'm being a good boy, a mere sliver...lower than the lowest prescribed dose is enough. IN fact as you've found out, too high a dose leaves you playing ring toss with yourself long after the fun is over.

On the commercial they always say, "if you have an erection lasting longer than 4 hours, call your doctor." Hell if I get a 4 hour erection, I'm calling the New York Times! lol.
kram


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