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    The Failure of Vytorin and Statins to Improve Cardiovascular Health
    avatar
    bobby75703 posted:
    The Failure of Vytorin and Statins to Improve Cardiovascular Health: Bad Cholesterol or Bad Theory?


    The article in full:
    http://www.jpands.org/vol13no3/peskin.pdf
     
    avatar
    Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
    But I agree that just measuring TC, LDL, & HDL is probably not the best indicators of future heart disease, but they are the best that are currently available.

    We also both agree on this, it is the best we have at the moment until some one provides us something better than just guesses.





    We are all in agreement that this cholesterol number is not a good indicator so why mass medicate the planet potentially maiming millions while profiting the few
     
    avatar
    Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
    Potential Conflict of Interest:
    Brian Peskin is also a consultant to nutritional
    companies.


    Also Conflict of interest


    The World health organisation people who accepted financial reward to help sell more swine flu vaccinations were paid by the very same industry that manufactures statins.


    Who are we supposed to believe?
     
    avatar
    billh99 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
    We are all in agreement that this cholesterol number is not a good indicator

    Neither I nor Toneman said that.

    We said best indicator. But it is still a good indicator and then best one currently available.
     
    avatar
    toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
    We are all in agreement that this cholesterol number is not a good indicator so why mass medicate the planet potentially maiming millions while profiting the few

    Don't twist my words against me again, I agree that this is the best measurement we have now, I never said I don't believe in the cholesterol theory.

    Please stop taking my words and words of others and changing their context to meet your needs.
     
    avatar
    toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
    If "high" cholesterol was such an enemy and if statins were such a savior how come people die, get stents or bypass operations when they have LOW CHOLESTEROL

    Because;

    Statins DO NOT:

    1) Control Blood Pressure.

    2) Cure the effects of smoking.

    3) Bring damaged heart cells back to life.

    4) Do not open already blocked arteries.

    5) Don't cure diabetes.

    All of these things will cause a cardiac event on it's own cholesterol not withstanding. You can treat your cholesterol but keep smoking and you have a high risk of a cardiac event still.
     
    avatar
    toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
    Potential Conflict of Interest:
    Brian Peskin is also a consultant to nutritional
    companies

    Why do you insist on connecting two different situations into one systemic issu?. Did you read the article Bobby posted or are you passing judgment on a headline again?

    This article was severely flawed and poorly written with many incorrect assumptions. It was written by an individual that is a Nutritional expert, therefore it's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of the quality of the presentation of his opinion. It is nothing like the situation at WHO, why even bring it up?
     
    avatar
    Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
    Why do you insist on connecting two different situations into one systemic issu?


    To me they are not different situations at all. These are supposed to be trustworthy organisations beyond reproach whose advice for our health we should be able to rely on.


    As the US Justice Dept and your self (with WHO) have rightfully pointed out these organisations with their own tactics can no longer be trusted.
     
    avatar
    Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
    Statins DO NOT:

    1) Control Blood Pressure. ( Fish oil & ginger does )

    2) Cure the effects of smoking. ( Mega Vitamin C does )

    3) Bring damaged heart cells back to life. (COq10 & magnessium does)

    4) Do not open already blocked arteries. (Niacin & vegetable juice does)

    5) Don't cure diabetes. (Atkins or Eat raw for 30 days does)


    STATINS HAVE BEEN PROVED TO
    • strip COq10
    • cause muscular dystrophy the heart is a muscle
    • cause violence and suicide
     
    avatar
    toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
    To me they are not different situations at all. These are supposed to be trustworthy organisations beyond reproach whose advice for our health we should be able to rely on.

    They are two completely different issues. WHO committed fraud. This articles' author did no such thing, I trust that he gave his opinion in good faith, I just find his position to be incorrect in my opinion. I never said he committed fraud by supplying fraudulent information.

    Don't confuse a difference in opinion with fraud so please don't use my words in the incorrect context again.
     
    avatar
    Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
    WHO committed fraud.


    Were they paid by the pharmas who have convictions, multiple civil law claims and engage in ghost writing practices?
     
    avatar
    toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
    Statins DO NOT:

    1) Control Blood Pressure. ( Fish oil & ginger does )

    2) Cure the effects of smoking. ( Mega Vitamin C does )

    3) Bring damaged heart cells back to life. (COq10 & magnessium does)

    4) Do not open already blocked arteries. (Niacin & vegetable juice does)

    5) Don't cure diabetes. (Atkins or Eat raw for 30 days does)

    This has nothing to do with my post. I am not even talking about these risk factors, I am pointing out that some one can have other risk factors along with good cholesterol numbers and still be subject to a risk of cardiac event. Why must you divert attention away from my comments to change the context in which it was written. If you don't want to reply to my comments, then don't but stop confusing the issue with information that has no relevancy to the topic.



    STATINS HAVE BEEN PROVED TO

    • strip COq10
    • cause muscular dystrophy the heart is a muscle
    • cause violence and suicide
    Has nothing to do with what I posted. Either address my statements or pass it by. If I want to discuss these items I will, even though NONE of these are proven but noted in trials which you don't believe in.
     
    avatar
    toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
    Were they paid by the pharmas who have convictions, multiple civil law claims and engage in ghost writing practices?

    Again, nothing to do with this thread, but your opinion is duly noted.
     
    avatar
    Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
    even though NONE of these are proven


    These are all proven and documented beyond any doubt by the manufacturer's themselves.



     
    avatar
    toneman84084 replied to Sir_Porangi's response:
    These are all proven and documented beyond any doubt by the manufacturer's themselves

    Again, back up your statements. I have looked for data to support this and there is NONE, just some opinion papers and articles. Show me what you have seen that tells you these are proven.

    You make statements I would like to research but provide no data or links to it.
     
    avatar
    Sir_Porangi replied to toneman84084's response:
    I have looked for data to support this and there is NONE


    Are you truly telling us that among all your data there is no reference to muscular dystrophy, violence, aggression and suicide?


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