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    fat and diabetes
    larrybaseball posted:
    Hello, my name is larrybaseball and I've had type 2 diabetes for about 18 yrs. I always thought that controlling carbs was the key to controlling diabetes. Recently I caught a snippet of a tv program that featured Dr. Neal Barnard. He said fat plays a role in controlling diabetes. What is the latest medical info on the interaction of fat and diabetes?
    adaptomom responded:
    A health care professional could probably explain it better than I could, but I do know that being overweight is a risk factor for diabetes, and being overweight could be the result of consumption of excess fat...also simple sugars in the foods we eat can convert to and be stored as fat in our bodies, so counting carbs, as you said, is key. Low-carb, low fat diet; low glycemic index foods. Any health care professionals or nutritionists out there may be able to shed more accurate light on this for you, though.
    dteresa responded:
    Larrybaseball, what is your A1c and your fasting numbers? Eighteen years is a long time. Are you at a normal weight? Do you take meds? Have your numbers been increasing over time or are they pretty stable? Do you have any complications?

    Fat causes insulin resistance.

    dianer01 responded:
    Hi Larrybaseball:

    Dietary fat can slow the uptake of carbs but the carbs still count. That may have been what was being referred to. The other posters are correct, body fat can contribute to insulin resistance.

    I hope this helps and you can find the full broadcast of the program.

    accelerate out of the corners
    larrybaseball replied to dteresa's response:
    a1c went from 7.2 to 8.2 three months ago. Altered my eating greatly and my recent fasting bsug has been around 100,over 3 month period. my strategy of increasing protein and fat and reducing carbs seemd to be working, But when I saw Dr. Neal Barnards program on diabetes and he said aminal fats were the real culprit in diabetes I got scared. I'm at my lowest weight in yrs, from a high of 208 now down to 168, yet still with sometimes hi bsug readings. on max glipizide and metformin. with my weight so low I need a new strategy on food. have problems with vegan diet. if Dr. Barnard is right, fat is building up in my cells causing insulin resistance.
    larrybaseball replied to dianer01's response:
    I got the Dr. Barnard dvd and watched it last nite. Animal fat in the cells blocks insulin from opening up cells to glucose and causes insulin resistance is his primary thesis. Technically its about mitochondria in the cells that burns fat. His answer is a vegan diet with extremely lo fat. I have trouble with a vegan diet but I have to do something
    betatoo replied to larrybaseball's response:
    Larry have you considered dropping the white starches completely and cutting back on the Orange & Brown starches? I follow this plan and eat lean protein, and lots of veggies everyday. I have dropped all sweetened drinks, preferring only coffee and water. At the same time I have my sins-one piece of dark chocolate every day, and one piece of rye toast for breakfast with my scrambled eggbeaters with cheese and two slices of crispy bacon. The rest of the day is chicken or fish, and the occasional bit of red meat. I like you can not even approach a vegan diet as I love my meat. Numbers? Last 2 years numbers have been A1C <6, and FBG<90. These are dropping as I go on, so that they are nearer to 5.2 and 80. I am 5'9" and weigh in at 155. I exercise on total gym, treadmill, do push ups, and pull ups/chin ups, and side plank dips every night of the week altering the exercise every other day.

    Hope these thoughts help.
    dianer01 replied to larrybaseball's response:
    I get what you are saying. I can eat a few vegetarian meals a week but could not do vegetarian or vegan for more than a few days.

    Many people have good results by cutting back on the animal fat, rice, flour of any kind and potatoes and of course pasta, chips and bakery. Lean protein such as fish or chicken breast are usually a good choice.

    let us know about the changes you have made. I could use some inspiration and motivation myself.

    accelerate out of the corners
    larrybaseball replied to dianer01's response:
    I have cut out all white starches, ie, wh potato, rice, spaghetti. have substituted winter,or butternut squash for starches. gives me the full feeling with low carbs,no fat. cut out cheese completely, except for small quantities of cr and cot ch. no beef, only chick br's and ctr cut pork. adding legumes to garden salads, ie, kidney bns, chick peas-both are high in fiber and give full feeling. cked carrots and broc are high in fiber, low in carbs and fat-both give me the 'full' feeling.

    My sense, after watching the pbs programs featuring Dr's Neal Barnard and Joel Furhman, is that Fat and dense sugar products(w/ hi glycemic index #'s) are the problems in diabetes.
    georgiaboy replied to larrybaseball's response:
    Larrybaseball I've been following a plan that my dietitian gave me. Granted I have to watch carbs but also some of the fats, starches etc. Been losing a lot. Went from 229.4 to 188.0 so far and still going. This is of the end of July. I'd get with a Dietitian/ nutritionist and talk to them. I don't trust any of those so called doctors you see on television.Got to figure that they're out for the money someway or another. Just like all of these sites that makes all kinds of promises about their products. Half the time the stuff they do list haven't been done a lot of testing on humans and that's not counting the stuff that they don't list in their ads. As you can see from this statement I don't trust any of it, much less those so called tv doctors.
    Like everyone else is saying, watch the carbs, fats etc. Try to see a dietitian/nutritionist and get a plan for you to follow. There is no standard plan that works for everyone. All of us are different. What works for me might not work for you and vise-versa. Hence the advice from all here to go see someone to talk to and help you with a plan.
    larrybaseball replied to georgiaboy's response:
    I did google Dr. Barnard and his name DOES come up in highly sophisticated research on fat and diabetes. Researchers are now finding a DIRECT link between fat(in the cells) and diabetes. I've reduced my fat intake considerably along with cutting out all white starch except for 1 piece of toast with my morning coffee. It has been a relief to know that I can eat a considerable amount of food, except for the fat and starch, and still get fairly low fasting bsug's,~90 to100. I'm do for my A1C this wk and I think it will be in the low 7's. still need to get the A1C to around 6.
    pdank responded:

    Seeing all the comments on here about disliking a vegan diet makes me want to post an answer. I am also a type 2 diabetic (since 1994) and until I started a serious lifestyle change in my way of eating last year I had real trouble keeping my A1c even near 7.0 and my weight fluctuates from a high of 240lb 4 years ago to a196 lb a year ago. I was on meds for cholesterol, High PB/P, triglycerides, max dose of metformin and the max dose of Lantus.
    I heard about a lifestyle of eating that had cured many people of diabetes and after reading about this lifestyle dedicated my time to learning and implementing this lifestyle. (you might call it a diet but we in this lifestyle don't call it that as diets have been proven NOT to work). A lifestyle change is different, where you learn to eat right and enjoy it so you do not want unhealthy foods. It is close to vegan, but we do eat one serving of meat @ day. No dairy, no PROCESSED foods. Everything is cooked or consumed from scratch. We use almond milk instead of dairy, coconut oil for cooking and almond butter and seeds to supplement our fats. These fats have been proven to be very beneficial to a diabetic's health. The lifestyle I am referring to you can Google and read about. It is called the Alkaline/Acid lifestyle or diet. If you really want to get this monkey off your back you will do something about it.

    After one year, I am off all meds for Cholesterol, triglycerides, B/P, and off all diabetic medicines. I weigh in at 155 lbs (my high school weight) and feel like a new person. The only change I made was to eat healthy foods that this lifestyle recommends.

    This article does not seem to condone any fats as good, but, there are good fats found in nuts, seeds, some oils etc. I keep my carbs at 50%, my fats at 30% and protein at 20% and now have no problem controlling my blood sugars if I continue to eat right. My last A1c was 6.2. Several others of my friends on Facebook have either started this lifestyle or been on it for a while and have had great success with their health! You do not have to buy the product some of these people sell, just eat right.

    It was not easy, but, even my doctor is interested in how I have taken control and that modern medicine has been unable to provide tthis kind of results.
    betatoo replied to pdank's response:
    Whoa, fats, I like them! Especially the fats from olives, nuts, avocado, and other mono type fats. At the same time, I believe that any life style that works for you is great. When I say I can't go vegan, I mean I have tried it, and not been satisfied. Does that mean I eat a lot of fatty meats, processed foods or dairy products? No, actually eat very few of these things any more as I do try to watch the saturated fats. So I eat lean protein, often passing up protein on some meals during the day as maybe I pigged out a little more than I should on the nuts! Hey! No ones perfect, but we all can adapt. I do not follow a diet, as I know that the way I live now-on a tight line that allows very little grain products, lean protein, and lots of veggies is my present and future. Others here realize much the same.
    dteresa replied to betatoo's response:
    I eat no meat, fats or oils, dairy, eggs. I do eat potatoes and sweet potatoes, corn tortillas made with just corn and lime, brown rice, beans, polenta, oatmeal, squashes and lots and lots of leafy greens and other vegies and fruit. T2 for twenty years. No meds. Fasting sugars now in the 70's.

    Atkins wrote a book called Dr. Atkins Nutrition Breakthrough or something like that. In it he says that although his diet is the best diet for diabetes some of his patients "adjust" to his diet (quotes his) and their sugars start to rise. I get the impression that while you are losing weight your sugars might be lower but if you are at your normal weight they can rise. So he devises a "meat and millet" diet in which he adds grains. I think this will not work because he doesn't eliminate meat and fat. He also doesn't seem to mention this in his other books.

    Fat causes insulin resistance. Animal protein can cause a spike in insulin sometimes more than some carbs.

    On the other hand, I notice many on the group have been low carbing for years. If they are taking no meds and their sugars remain low or get lower then maybe they are doing something right. If it ain't broke don't fix it. But if you are eating a certain way and your numbers climb and you have to take more and more meds then maybe you should take another look at what you are eating.

    Look around you. If you know other t2 diabetics you will probably see that unlike people on this group, they are careless about diet and rely on pills. People who come to a support group like this and who want to take charge of their own health are in the minority.

    betatoo replied to dteresa's response:
    Look around you. If you know other t2 diabetics you will probably see that unlike people on this group, they are careless about diet and rely on pills. People who come to a support group like this and who want to take charge of their own health are in the minority. I can't fault your argument here. My own Dr. put me on metformin at diagnosis. I refused, and a month later his statement was"if you keep doing what you're doing you will never have to take any medication for diabetes.

    On your diet situation, some fats are needed for the system, just as some carbs are needed. At the same time if a lifestyle works for a person, stick with it. If I get into further trouble where my present lifestyle does not work for me, I will pursue a change that will, if it has to be vegan, so be it. I am a firm believer that humans have not evolved to the modern day diet, and the paleolithic lifestyle is more to our liking when it comes to much of modern disease. After all, the modern diet is less than 3000 years old, in terms of evolution, that is a few minutes.

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