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    Okinawa Centenarian Study - NO VEGETARIANS!
    heretk posted:
    I just came across the full text of Shibata's paper:

    Shibata H., Nagai H., Haga H., Yasumura S., Suzuki T., Suyama Y. Nutrition for the Japanese elderly. Nutr & Health. 1992; 8(2-3): 165-75.

    [br>[blockquote>The food intake pattern in Okinawa has been different from that in other regions of Japan. The people there have never been influenced by Buddhism. Hence, there has been no taboo regarding eating habits. Eating meat was not stygmatised, and consumption of pork and goat was historically high. It was exceptional among Japanese food consumption.
    The intake of meat was higher in Okinawa... On the other hand, the intake of fish was lower... Intake of NaCl was lower... Deep colored vegetables were taken more in Okinawa... These characteristics of dietary status are thought to be among the crucial factors which convey longevity and good health to the elderly in Okinawa Prefecture. ....[/blockquote>[br>and the "kicker":[br>[br>[blockquote>Unexpectedly, we did not find any vegetarians among the centenarians.[/blockquote>
    jc3737 responded:
    Nutr Health. 1992;8(2-3):165-75. Nutrition for the Japanese elderly. Shibata H , Nagai H , Haga H , Yasumura S , Suzuki T , Suyama Y . SourceDepartment of Community Health, Tokyo Metropolitan Institute of Gerontology, Japan.
    AbstractThe present paper examines the relationship of nutritional status to further life expectancy and health status in the Japanese elderly based on 3 epidemiological studies. 1. Nutrient intakes in 94 Japanese centenarians investigated between 1972 and 1973 showed a higher proportion of animal protein to total proteins than in contemporary average Japanese. 2. High intakes of milk and fats and oils had favorable effects on 10-year (1976-1986) survivorship in 422 urban residents aged 69-71. The survivors revealed a longitudinal increase in intakes of animal foods such as eggs, milk, fish and meat over the 10 years. 3. Nutrient intakes were compared, based on 24-hour dietary records, between a sample from Okinawa Prefecture where life expectancies at birth and 65 were the longest in Japan, and a sample from Akita Prefecture where the life expectancies were much shorter. Intakes of Ca, Fe, vitamins A, B1, B2, C, and the proportion of energy from proteins and fats were significantly higher in the former than in the latter. Intakes of carbohydrates and NaCl were lower.
    jc3737 replied to jc3737's response:
    High intakes of milk and fat and oils had favorable effects on the 10 yr survivorship.

    From what I think I know this would not seem possible.I would love to know what Dr McDougall and Jeff think about this....but clearly the "vegetables" explanation for the Okinawans longevity does not appear to hold up in light of this study.
    heretk replied to jc3737's response:
    Actually, I do not really want to know what Dr. McDougall or Jeff think about it. There are billions of other people on Earth that may also have something interesting to say or to teach us. Let us give other people a chance to talk, rather than concentrating our attention only on those few who happen to have a prominent access to the media. At this time.

    anon615 replied to heretk's response:
    H, who has more access to the media--Gary Taubes or McDougall and Esselstyn--despite the apparent success of ex president Clinton.

    heretk replied to anon615's response:
    Google search stats, ... and the winner is:

    1) Dr. Mcdougall 1,440,000 results
    2) Gary Taubes 505,000 results
    3) Dr. Esselstyn 275,000 results
    anon615 replied to heretk's response:
    Oh, please. Dr. McDougall .and his diet have been around a lot longer than Gary Taubes. To have one third the results on google for a guy whose theories span about half a dozen years compared to someone who has been around and espousing his own diet theories since the seventies should give you a hint about the enormous influence of Taubes. And you don't see the print and other media throwing palm branches at the feet of McDougall as they do with Taubes.

    heretk replied to anon615's response:
    May be it has something to do with the data, facts and the availability of supporting science, which one has got while the other one's is just "I say so", "my way or the highway" with a dose of "meat and dairy industry conspiracies" theory.

    Give me more success stories to build up your case (your plural, not personal).
    heretk replied to heretk's response:
    I still hope people would come with more clear-cut paleo cardiovascular case stories here and on the other forum where that question was posted first (by somebody else). So that we will have a better comparison because one can find plenty of cardiovascular and other disease cases in the vegan on-line groups (e.g. f1). I thought it wouldn't be a fair comparison to point out the one without the other I am anxiously waiting.


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