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    Poz Magazine website
    David J Malebranche, MD, MPH posted:
    The following link above is for Poz Magazine, a long running online and print magazine that is specifically geared for individuals living with HIV, but also has great information for anyone concerned about the possibility of HIV in their own lives or someone elses. They are very up to date with the latest research and treatment updates, and contain interesting and inspiring stories of people working in the HIV field, both positive and negative. Lastly, has an online personals section for anyone interested in meeting someone. Enjoy!
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    shaunw84 responded:
    Poz is an excellent source for HIV information. My only issue with Poz is that the community forum moderators will never admit that oral sex is a risk factor.

    All government bodies admit it is (US, UK, CA, AU, FR, etc.)
    Depending on the government its between 1/10000 - 1/5000.

    There are people who report this was there only risk factor and contracted it.

    There are animal studies that show its possible.

    Poz moderators will cite a study where no one who practice oral sex only got it. The problem is
    (1) Usually an additional risk factor is necessary e.g. sever gum disease, an oral infection, cuts/abrasions in the mouth. Those who participated in the study may not have had these.

    (2) The study may not have been long enough. If the chance of happening is small, it may take a lot more exposures for an infection to occur. For example, in 1999 a study was done where a group of HIV men were followed for 6 months. None of their partners got infected, even when condoms were not used for sex. It was just a situation where the study was too short.
    lookynse replied to shaunw84's response:
    That's because oral sex has been proven over many years that it is not a valid risk of HIV transmission. If you equal the risk as being hit by a UFO then yes you can say its a risk, but how many people have been hit by one?

    People in the medical industry know that its not a risk, that's why they make that clear. The problem is when internet experts give their opinion not medical opinions.
    An_261092 replied to lookynse's response:
    I'm sorry but I agree with Shawn. If the person has bleeding gums or ulcers where the mucosal barrier is breached then this is a valid entry point for hiv to enter. Yes it is low risk but these factors alone increase that risk. I have been through this with my doctors and this is the only way I may have contracted this and have had numerous ars symptoms. Will keep you posted
    lookynse replied to An_261092's response:
    Nobody has been infected this way in over 15 years of research with studies with couples where one partner has HIV the or has not. Take in mind the many millions of acts of oral sex that take place every day then its not logical to say oral sex is a valid risk of HIV transmission.

    The only way you could be at risk is if you had a tooth taken out and then decided to drink a pint of sperm, as that tends not to be the case, then anyone educated and medically trained on HIV transmission will never accept oral sex as a risk because its been proved other wise, not speculation but simple stone cold facts and research over 15 years.
    shaunw84 replied to lookynse's response:

    As I said, the all world governments support that oral sex is a risk, albeit a small one. And the risk has been stated and ranges from as low as .5/10,000 to 1/5000.

    There are animal models that show that HIV infection can occur via the mouth. Studies have been done in Monkeys. A very recent study (2009), at which showed mice were infected via the mouth. (And it's pretty difficult to get a mouse to get an HIV infection).

    There are people who have been investigated by government bodies who stated they were infected via oral sex. I guess if you want to believe they are lying, then that's certainly up to you. The majority of doctors will admit the possibility.

    I wish I could find the UK article, but they investigated 5000 HIV cases for 3 - 4 years. They concluded that the only possible means for about 30 of them was orally transmission.

    Ironically, while moderators at sites like the also say you cannot get HIV orally, the medical experts on the site say you can. (Never understood this.)

    I've had debates on this with MDs and shown them these studies. After seeing the data they all said "it might be possible".

    But anyone who wants to have oral sex without protection is certainly able to do so.

    shaunw84 replied to lookynse's response:

    Now this woman is one of 3 possibilities:

    1. Her condom failed and she didn't know it.
    2. She got it by giving oral sex
    3. She's lying

    I guess I feel people have no need to lie about how they got it.

    If you'll read stories on the of people who talk about their history and how they got HIV, you'll read other stories very much like this one. And, I've read accounts on Journal of Infectious Disease also.

    I don't bug these people because I don't want to intrude on their privacy. So I cannot say I've talked to them. But I would rather believe in the honesty of others then to think they would lie about something like HIV.

    Be well,
    And before the animal study, I use to say the same thing -- Saliva will kill it. (With a shade of a doubt because of individual testimony). Now I just admit it's possible.
    lookynse replied to shaunw84's response:
    Indeed I do, as scientific evidence has proved over many studies that it has never happened. You would need extreme circumstances like I stated before to be even considered a risk.

    The mouth has over a dozen enzymes and proteins that render the virus inactive, its a very hostile environment and HIV is at best very unstable and very hard to transmit.

    Anything is possible, but the reality is often different and that's been proven by to many studies to be dismissed.
    shaunw84 replied to lookynse's response:
    Then how do you explain animal studies that show HIV infection via the mouth?
    shaunw84 replied to shaunw84's response:
    Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR et al. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the tricontinental seroconverter study, 1982-1994. Am J Epidemiol 1997;146:531-542

    Keet IPM, van Lent NA, Sandfort GM et al. Orogenital sex and the transmission of HIV among homosexual men. AIDS 1992;6:223-226

    Schacker T, Collier A, Shea T et al. Oral/genital contact as an increasing means of HIV acquisition among men who have sex with men. Int Conf AIDS 1996;11:383.
    Also, you noted there there have been many studies that found no risk of oral infection. This one did. And there are a few more.

    So, yes there were studies done that found no infections occurred during the study. And there are studies done that show there were infections.

    That's why I have to consider animal models. They have no reason to lie about how they got infected with HIV. And they have saliva and enzymes in their mouth too.


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