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    Kidney Stones in the Kidney
    ambernc_77 posted:
    I have had kidney stones and I had an attack 3 & 1/2 weeks ago. The ER put me on pain killers and said drink lots of water. A week later my Dr. sent me in for a cat scan. The scan showed a 6mm stone & several under 5mm. Then the ER dr. told me that the stones sit there for along time and don't cause pain & since none of the stones were seen in my urine track then something else must be causing the pain. But they didn't have any answers fromt he scan. Then 3 days agi I get a kidney infection. The ER does another scan, same results. They give me pain meds and send me home! What else can I do? I can't function and I can't go on like this either in pain or on meds for week after week!
    John-SKPT responded:
    There probably aren't too many options other than to seek out a good (hard to find) urologist and get some advice.

    If the stone are blocking urine passage out of the kidney and the UPJ, then that pressure can cause pain.

    There are some surgical options, some are more invasive than others, but that would be the decision of the urologist to guess the probability that it would work at solving the problem.
    lisfay responded:
    I have had the same problem! I have been to a urologist and nephrologist and have had 2 ct's, i orginally had 1 stone in 10/08 which was obstructed, but never passed, had another ct in 03/09 and found a 6mm on my left as well as a 3mm and a 4mm on my right non obstructed, and recently another ct 06/09, now about 7 stones 6mm or less non obstructed but am in constant discomfort at times feel like im in back labor! But the MDs say that the stones shouldnt be causing my pain. It feels like my kidneys are swollen or something. Its very frustrating! So now Im having lab work done and then a 24 hour urine collection. It's like, I know my body, something is not right!!!
    dessi38 responded:
    Do not feel bad. In May 08, my doctor found a kidney stone that was almost 2 inches in my left kidney and a smaller one that was stuck in the opening from my tube and bladder. I have had invasive surgery (actually going up inside with a scope and laser) as well as 3 lithotripsies. The pain is getting to be unbearable as they have only shrunk the stone approx. half an inch. So now as it is July 09, I have been dealing with this for over a year, a new stone has began to create in my left kidney as well and my doctor is giving me a run around. I've had 3 CT scans, about 50 X-rays (multiple X-rays at the same time), and more to come. I just want this over, if you feel as if you need to definitely see a specialist, if you aren't happy with the results, get a second opinion. I know I am calling my family doctor and getting referred to someone else.
    shelleymac68 responded:
    I just got done watching this video of a fella that often gets kidney stones. If your stone is calcium based, which most are, then you can try lemon juice. Take 8 oz of fresh squeezed pure lemon juice and drink it. An hour later, 8 oz water with a 1 oz shot of pure squeezed pure lemon juice, drink it. Repeat on the hour for 12 hours total. You may have to do this quite a bit. Here is the url for the info. He's just a regular Joe like you and me and I thought this method might actually work so I am going to try it on my boyfriend because he is experiencing a stone as we speak. I'll let you know if it works. P.S. - always consult a physician before trying anything.

    kirkwoodmom responded:
    my 6 year old had lithotripsy on her stone (the size of a nickle) passed most of it, but now has 3 stones under 10mm and one that is 3/4 of a centemeter. The stones won't pass or are too big, they said gring a lot of Lemonade from concentrate (not the powdered kind) and lots of water. The acid in the lemonade helps break it down. They tell us NO DARK SODA! She now has to have invasive surgery to get rid of the stones. The pain for her would come & go and this is because the stones are floating around bumping into the walls of her kidney. the intense pain occurs when the stone is trying to get out & gets trapped trying to enter the ureter. She can lie down and the stone will float back up for a while but it is only a matter of time till it happens again. We are so lucky to have found a urologist & nephrologist at Children;s hospital that explains everything to us and never leaves us hanging
    Rascalsmomma responded:
    I first suffered through a kidney stone attack while sitting in church -- leaving just as the minister began to preach. I then spent the next 6 hours in the ER. Since then, I have learned that all doctors / ERs can do is prescribe meds for pain and vomitting. *** However, three years ago my boss told me about something that DOES actually push the stones out! PLEASE CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR BEFORE TRYING ANYTHING, but here is the recipe: 3 ounces Pineapple Juice, 3 ounces Tonic Water (any grocery store will carry it in the mixer section), one or two dashes of ground Nutmeg. Mix and drink. That's it! The acid from the juice breaks up the stone, the carbonation from the tonic water opens the passage way, and the nutmeg (I think) soothes the passage of the stone out of your system. I keep all ingredients on hand and use them whenever I feel the beginning of symptoms. I have only had one attack in the last three years! Hope this helps.
    cairine responded:
    Please help me. I have passed several stones recently, stent removed dr. explained remaining stones inactive so I should be fine. First few days felt great. Energy returned and well. Now dull ache between both kidneys (stones in both) and nauseous and weak. Drs. keep saying should only have problems if stones are blocking urine. Why do I feel so awful then? I almost can feel where my kidneys are and they seem enlarged. I know the dr. will think I am crazy if I tell them this. Oh dr. also said could have some flank pain from tissue healing.
    John-SKPT responded:
    Just because the remaining stones were not moving or blocking urine at one point in time does not mean that they are guaranteed to stay out of the way forever. Something might have moved a bit since the previous problem was resolved.

    It could be pain from the stent removal, but it sort of sounds as if the urine flow might be partially blocked again.

    You probably need to ask a doctor, maybe have a repeat ultrasound done to check for obstructed urine.
    sunset45 responded:
    I recommend seeing a Urologist. Basically the ER is just trying to relieve your symptoms. A stone that is 6mm will not pass on its own either. You will need some kind of treatment from a urologist. Good luck on this....I went 3 months like this and yes your pain can be from the stone. Don't believe the ER dr on this.
    sunset45 replied to Rascalsmomma's response:
    I've tried this...didn't work for me.
    stonefactory replied to cairine's response:
    I have suffered with stones my entire adult life. It is rare that I go a month without passing at least one stone, and almost never that I go without pain for a week. While clearly there is pain when a stone enters the ureter, I have finally found a urologist to verify that stones can hurt without blocking the ureter. In addition, there is a process called "ball valving" when a stone can approach the opening to the ureter, and will cause pretty significant pain, then will back away, easing the pain.

    I certainly empathize with your situation, and Iike you, I would love to find some answers. Unfortunately, most of the urologists I have dealt with seem not to want to listen, especially when what I am telling them.doesn't match what they believe. Two years ago, after I went to him with flank pain (As he instructed), He took and X-ray, and informed me I shouldn't have pain, He then basically accused me of seeking drugs. Two days later I passed a 3 mm stone. I promptly wrote him a letter firing him, and pasted the stone to the letter before hand delivering it.

    For me, the bottom line seems to be that most urologists have not had the pleasure of dealing with these little jewels. That by itself is not a problem... I am sure there are plenty of male OBGYNs who are excellent, because they LISTEN to their patients. For some reason there seems to be an arrogance among urologists that make them skeptical any time the patient tells them something that differs with their research or beliefs. Unfortunately, since the first line of defense for this is pain medication, they are often quick to make assumptions... in some cases character assumptions... which are insulting and infuriating.

    I have had to get used to the fact that I will take narcotic pain medication for the rest of my life (I also have four rutured disks). My current urologist is hinting that the next time I come in with pain, it's off to lithotripsy. Lithotripsy and other procedures simply are not practical when you have pain as often as I do. I pass most of the stones eventually (including one that was 1 cm ... kinda proud of that one), so taking pain meds until I pass them works for me. It is not ideal, but it provides a better quality of life than living with the pain,,, I just hate the fact that I am made to feel like a junkie.

    Sorry for the rant... am I the only one in this situation?
    vastomers replied to stonefactory's response:
    I'm a 64 year old male who has been plagued by intermittent, searing abdominal pain in my left side for the last two years. It gets worse when I'm engaged in physical activity, especially while carrying something heavy. I've found relief by lying in bed with a hot water bottle on my abdomen. My family doctor said it was stress and after several visits over many months, said I asked too many questions. I then found a D.O. who seemed to be more sympathetic to my plight and said I have chronic constipation and recommended taking Miralax. Since I have 2 to 3 bowel movements per day I found his diagnosis odd. The Miralax gave me diarrhea and did not alleviate the pain. After nearly a year of seeking his help after pain flareups, he recommend a CT scan of the abdomen. This showed 3 stones in the left renal pelvis with the largest being 9 mm. There is also a lobulated simple cyst in the lower pole of the left kidney. The Radiologist reported there is no urinary obstruction. The D.O. said the stones would not be causing pain. Then I sought out a Gastroenterologist who agreed that the diagnosis of constipation was nonsense. He scheduled a colonoscopy which showed no polyps but the presence of several diverticula. That was not news since my last colonoscopy 10 years earlier showed diverticula. This is common in older people and will not cause pain unless becoming infected (diverticulitis). He then scheduled an abdominal sonogram (ultra sound) which showed the presence of two stones in the left kidney pelvis which, according to the report, are non obstructing. He prescribed a 10 day regimen of Flagyl (an antibiotic costing me $4.) That did not help to alleviate the pain. Then he prescribed Vancomycin, a stronger antibiotic. I was shocked to learn the price for ten days was $818.00. During this ten day period I was miserable and lost 13 pounds. The doc suggested I was just eating less. But I suspected malabsorption. After contacting the drug manufacturer, I learned Vancomycin is to knock out C-def (clostridium difficuli). The test for C-def had come back negative (after the colonoscopy) so why was it prescribed for me? I never got an answer. Then he prescribed Xifaxan, another antibiotic ($116). Again, no relief. Then a round of Cipro which did nothing to solve the problem. Then he suggested an air contrast barium upper GI which showed similar findings to the earlier ultrasound. The Radiologist reported NON OBSTRUCTING renal calculi. So, after over two years of on and off searing pain that is not caused by kidney stones or diverticula, what do I do next? Fortunately I found a competent and caring urologist who suggested a CT scan ($1800). The Radiologist's report came back showing Left renal calculi with the largest being 12 mm. There may be some mild obstructive uropathy present. In my follow up visit, the urologist had examined the images himself and found that the cyst was preventing the large stone from lodging in the entrance to the ureter but was "BALL VALVING." And causing intermittent pain. Finally an answer! I'm now scheduled for a ESWL (lithotripsy) and hopefully an end to this long nightmare.
    cynsue75 replied to stonefactory's response:
    Oh believe me you are not alone on this path you are taking...I too have had the multiple stones litho and Dr who don't listen...everything you said is true and I am rite there with you...Good Luck
    Kestra7 replied to stonefactory's response:
    No offense but I WISH you were the only one in that situation. My husband has a story almost exactally the same as yours. He's in the ER at least twice a month ... we have no insurance and so we have no urologist for him to see. He has a primary care Dr that only charges us $20 per visit so that helps, he keeps him supplied with drugs but not very "good" ones because .. well because we can't afford to purchase any.

    On his most recent ER trip, they did an Ultrasound (no more CT's hes has 14 in the last year) and told him there were so many stones is EACH kidney that they couldn't even begin to count them all. The did see the 8mm one that he still hasn't passed. And of course .. theres no pain because they are not in his ureters.

    We saved up for 2 months and went to see a Urologist who looked at him ... looked at his CT's ... and told him "yep .. you have kidney stones. But you're not in any pain because they are all in your kidneys. Come back when you get some insurance and I will see if I can help you. I don't want to do anything if I am not going to get paid" ... Excuse me ... what ever happened to the Hippocratic Oath? Maybe they should re read the part that states ....
    "I will treat without exception all who seek my
    ministrations, so long as the treatment of others
    is not compromised thereby, and I will seek the
    counsel of particularly skilled physicians where
    indicated for the benefit of my patient."
    It makes me wonder about the state of affairs in medicine these days. Don't get me wrong, there are some great doctors out there, I know .. I have worked for a few of them in the last 25 years ... but it seems to me that the more $$ they make .. the more $$ they want and the less they help their patients to get it.

    It's to the point now where we are just waiting for his kidneys to fail and pray that someone will see that as a reason to help him.

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