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    Enough, or too much?
    dfromspencer posted:
    I have been wrestling with this for many years now, when is it enough Enough? Or, when does romance become too much romance?

    I will admit it, i was young when i married. I didn't really know what romance in a relationship should be? Or even how to go about it? Well, after my divorce i started looking for the answer. I watched romantic movies, (Titanic/Avatar fight for first place) i read books, even magazines like Red Book for an example?! I talked to friends, and family about it, i went all out on finding what romance in a marriage, or any relationship was all about?

    Twice thereafter, i went "too far" in my relationships with women. Oh yes, they told me that!!! Too far? Well, how much is too far? I would take them on dates to diner and a romantic movie, or out to a park for a picnic? Too many scenarios to talk about here! I went all out, when they would come to spend the night i had candles lit everywhere, flowers scattered throughout my apartment. I made them a special meal, and we would usually spend some time watching a movie, cuddling on the couch. And then, well, you know?! And, if they should want a more stable relationship, i would do little things for them all the time. Things like draw a nice hot bath for them when they complained of a hard, long day?! Give them a nice long massage after, and then make a real nice dinner for them. I wouldn't even let them help with the dishes. It was a take yourself to the living room, pour yourself a small glass of wine, and settle on the couch, and i will be there momentarily.

    We would cuddle all the time, even in bed. I would surprise them all the time with things like flower petals all over the bed, or meet them at the door after work completely naked, or with just a cooking apron? Give them little cards for special favors, like back rubs, or an evening out, i will make your favorite meal, things like that? If i was at work, and they were home, i made it a point to call them at lunchtime, or break time?

    When we would go out, i would always hold their hand, open doors for them, (sometimes not, depending on the situation?) seat them at a restaurant, things like that?

    So, where is the overboard on that? Where did i go wrong? What did i not do? Or, what did i do too much of? I never knew there was a too much? All i had heard from all the women i had talked to was; "I never get enough romance"!!! I had two in a row tell me that! How did i give them too much? That is what i would like to know??? So........

    Take the Poll

    Did i give these lady's too much, or not enough? Can anyone help me here?
    • waaaay too much, Dude!!!
    • Not enough by half!
    • Enough.
    • About right?
    • I need to do more research.
    View Poll Results
    bigred53 responded:
    Wow Dennis where have you been all my life.? That sounds absolutely wonderful to me but maybe it was a bit overwhelming for them. I just don't know. I do know that I would be doing similar things for someone I loved. It really is too bad that we live so far from each other.

    rohvannyn responded:
    It sounds to me like they weren't ready for their romantic dreams to come true. With you actually doing the things so many women want, when they were perhaps used to men being self centered and not as romantic, perhaps they were afraid of too many expectations being placed on them. If a woman is being treated like a princess, and she is naturally a little suspicious, she might think "what is he going to want from me?" If a lady has poor self esteem she might not feel like she merits such good treatment.

    I say don't change a thing. More women need to get used to being treated well! When you find a mature lady who is confident in herself, she will eat this up with a spoon! The only thing to change is, maybe go a little more casual in the beginning and then turn on the charm more as you get to know each other.

    You are an awesome guy, Dennis, and I really hope you find an awesome gal to match you!

    'Your focus determines your reality.' --QGJ
    mikeydell replied to rohvannyn's response:
    Dennis, as guys WE go overboard!!! The trick is to learn how to balance everything. I've been called 'nice guy' and 'angel' too many times. Told my last 'friend' (who happened to be diagnosed as a person suffering from co-dependency issues) that had I treated her like dirt she would have appreciated me more, of course she disagreed! Hey, when they tell you they've never felt so much 'love and compassion' in their life, especially when they were married to a narcissist and alcoholic for 30 years (and their mom was an alcoholic as well) and they still walk away from a caring relationship WHO has the problem? She's back on the dating sites from what she said (read my Independence Day letter posted earlier) looking for what she tossed away 3X before.

    Believe it or not, women still want a 'cave man' - one who can provide for them. It's like a primal instinct, or so I've read. Bottom line, we have to learn how to be gruff and rough, BUT balance it with TLC at the appropriate time. No more 'gurly mahn', just more 'manly man'! ALL of us guys can learn from that. Dennis, UNREQUITED LOVE IS NEVER WORTH GETTING DEPRESSED AND SICK OVER. Learn from all of it and move on - while you can wish for one, never expect a happy ending because more times than not there isn't one and that way you'll never be disappointed.
    dfromspencer responded:
    Thanks guys!!!

    Michelle, you are an amazing lady! From all i have heard from you, you deserve a great man to treat you so well?! You, like myself, and Aunt Roh too, have paid our dues, and we all deserve to find the right match for ourselves! I think Roh may have already? Even if not, what she has, is very special!!!

    I should have been a little clearer, i suppose? Roh, i did take this very slowly, very very slowly! I was once bitten, twice shy now! You already know my background, so i won't go there. I had to laugh a bit at the mental image what you said about being to speedy in my romances, thanks for that! I can't jump into relationships, never could. I have always been a little shy about that?! Even in my first long term romance, we went very slow. We met at twelve, and later in our thirteenth year, we had sex for the first time in our lives, it took us a long time to come to that?! I didn't want to, but she persuaded me any way?! We were still together when i helped move my mother and the murderer out to Colorado. I never expected to stay there, but it broke us up. I could not hold her in a long distance romance.

    Trust me when i say i went very slowly in all of my romances! I even knew my wife for a year and a half before asking her to marry me?! Tonda, the first long term romance after i left my wife, lasted only a half a year when i found out she was still seeing er last boyfriend. She even told me she loved my romantic side? How? She lied to me almost daily, and i didn't catch on, my sister saw her do this four times before she told me. I was devastated to say the least! I was just about to ask her to be my fiance`.

    I could go on and on about the last few before i stopped having sex completely, but that would take to long, and i am tired of typing now. LOL!!!

    I do agree with you Roh, no one should jump into anything, not until they really get to know who they are with?!!! Too many people jump into relationships for all the wrong reasons, or for what they think may be lasting, only to get cut off at the knees! Been there, done that!!! There is waaaaaaay too many divorces in this country, when there should only be a few?!

    Well, Aunt Roh, and friend Michelle, time to give up the keyboard for a while! Please have a wonderful day!!!

    rohvannyn replied to dfromspencer's response:
    Okay, fair enough, Uncle Dennis, I understand! If you did take it slow then I have no idea what those womens' problems were. I stand by my assessment of you though! You are a great guy. If those women couldn't deal with your wonderful, sweet, romantic ways, then there was something wrong with THEM. To be honest, I've had discomfort with romance at times too, mostly because I didn't feel worthy of it. And that was a problem with me, not my partner. I'm getting better about it though.

    'Your focus determines your reality.' --QGJ
    bigred53 replied to dfromspencer's response:
    Oh Dennis my hope for both of us is that we find our true companions. If not in this life then in the next one. In the meantime we are lucky enough to have some very good friends.


    sluggo45692 responded:
    Hi Dennis,

    I agree with the girls. Your freaking the women out, because your too good to them. A lot of women our age, who are single, have had some really bad relationships. Think about who your dating pool are. Divorced because of abuse, drugs, alcohol, financial difficulties, cheating, or married young because they were pregnant.

    We don't have a lot of single women who have had a lot exposure to a good man. I was very lucky when I met my wife. She was legally married to a man for 25 years. When he married her, she was the other woman, of his first marriage. She divorced him mostly due to the same reason. He was seeing (now married to) a lot lizard. His son wasn't even invited to the wedding. GREAT GUY Huh.

    I dated a lot after my ex & I split, and I did all the same things your doing. I learned after the first wife. You can put a woman on a pedestal, but you have to take them down and treat them as a woman and equal, also. Worship the them because they deserve it. With our partners, you have to be a man. Hold them tight, disagree with them, but most of all, they are equal and want to be treated the same.

    My wife tells me all the time that she's the spoiled one. She feels sometimes our love life is all about her and tells me to take what I want. I have a love for her bottom and it's hard to ask for it. I alway make sure she's ready, but I have to go there every once in a while. Believe me, I really spoil her before and after. It even harder to ask for it, when you only have a chance to have sex 2-4 times a month. After being with her for 6 years, she reads me pretty well and knows when I have to have it.

    My ex couldn't read a comic book and had no idea how much I wanted sex. I put her on the pedestal, but never really took her down. I was alway trying to please her and not myself for anything. Of course when I did try to please myself with her, that was out and it all had to be about her.

    Dennis the best advise I can give you is keep trying and set your boundries. Sit down and literally write down what you want in a woman/partner. Example: non-smoker. If she smokes don't date her. If she hides it, really don't stick around. You know what you want. Put it in front of you and then decide what you will do to get and keep it.

    A woman can be the perfect woman in all aspects, but one and it will drive you crazy. I dated a woman for a month and she would do anything (in bed) with me. That was one of my requirements when I started dating her and she knew that was what I wanted. After a month she tells me, we can still date, but no sex. I didn't go out with her again. It wasn't all sex in the relationship, but I would not date a woman who didn't want to have sex. This is just one example, but I hope you see my point.

    Your not over doing anything, but you have to know when to add the equal time also. I'm sure the ladies will agree, it's great to be on the pedestal, but they like to be equal also. They want to give a little of the pedestal time to their partner.

    Good Luck
    Leslie Becker-Phelps, PhD responded:
    Hi, Dennis. I have more of a question than an answer. When you were being romantic, were you "taking in" what they wanted at the time? It's important not only to be caring and romantic, but to also gauge what your partner wants in general and at any particular time.

    For instance, an emotionally sensitive, mature woman might be very ready for a committed relationship and romance but still not respond well to what might feel like a barrage of romantic gestures. She might sometimes want romance and at other times want a bit more space. She might want to have time to connect in ways that are less romantic and more down-to-earth. Also, her idea of romance might be different than yours -- one woman might enjoy the bedroom strewn with flowers while another woman might respond better to a picnic under that stars (of course, a woman might also respond equally well to both). Make sense?

    So, it is important that people consider their own wants and needs while also registering and responding to the specific wants and needs of their partner. Erring too much in either direction -- as well as incorrectly assuming the wants/needs of a partner -- can cause relationship problems.

    Does considering this resonate at all for you? Is it helpful?
    dfromspencer replied to Leslie Becker-Phelps, PhD's response:
    Hi everyone, thanks for the responses!

    I knew I shouldn't have kept it so short, being it is already sooooo long! All of you have taken my brevity for something else entirely!

    I have done all of these things you talk about. I only kept it short to point out the things I did do for them, when I felt they needed it? I am sorry if I misled all of you, but I do not put my women on any pedestal, I try to treat them as equally as I possibly can! I do these little things to show them my appreciation for them doing the little things I like! THEY, it seemed, have never known anyone who was a romantic?

    Being a romantic does not mean I do this every day, or even every week, it was a shortened version. It is my fault, I should have taken more time to explain myself better? I was already tired from typing!

    I have done all of those things Mikeydell, and Sluggo, and Dr. Leslie, all of you have spoken about! I am so sorry I misled you guys to think this was all I ever did? I just wanted my lady's to know how much I appreciated the things they did for me, and that it would be a forever type of thing, not just a wambamsoonandsoforth!

    For Dr. Leslie; yes, you have described me in a nut shell. I tried to use all of the things I had learned from those around me, and from magazines, and other types of correspondence. I tried, still try to be a very well rounded individual? I still haven't figured out what a woman wants? When a woman gets mad at you, for doing what she asked you to do, what does that mean? I still haven't figured it all out, probably never will?

    I may not have all the answers, but when a lady I am living with, comes home from a hard day at work, I will draw her a nice hot bath, then give her a nice massage, then set dinner on the table for her, even if she doesn't like it, at least I tried, right? This is what I am talking about! Taking care of them, instead of it always being the other way round all the time?! The flower petals on the bed thing, was one time, and it was for Valentines day.

    You see? I should have taken more time to explain why I do the things I do??? Not now, I am so tired of typing. Again, sorry for misleading anyone!

    dem17 replied to dfromspencer's response:
    did vote in tour pole twice, hood at words right now
    dfromspencer replied to dem17's response:
    Thank you, Deb! That means so much to me!!!

    I hope you are well, and still talking to your counselor?

    Take good care, Deb. I hope you can stay longer, next time?

    Leslie Becker-Phelps, PhD replied to dfromspencer's response:
    Dennis: I also wouldn't know what a person (man or woman) wants if they get angry when you do what they ask for. These people are obviously being indirect, misdirecting you, or expressing genuine conflict when they share what they want. In situations like these, it could be helpful to (at a calm time) note the discrepancy and ask them to help you understand.

    You might also need to listen to what they are saying along with what they are doing and accept that they are expressing their internal conflicting perspectives-- sometimes there is no one consistent "answer" or desired response, leaving you in the position of never being able to "get it right." The next question you might want to ask yourself is whether you want such a person in your life. When people choose a partner who expresses conflicting desires, then they will inevitably have a relationship filled with conflicts. In seeing this, you may or may not be willing to have this in your life with that person.
    dfromspencer replied to Leslie Becker-Phelps, PhD's response:
    Good morning, Dr. Leslie,

    Yep, i have asked for clarification in some instances, but I also knew with some, it was a lost cause. Always, before either I, or they want to end our relationship, i ask them to give me their reasons for leaving, and I would do the same for them if i was breaking it off. Two have actually told me I was smothering them. I had to ask why they felt this way, and if there was some way i could do better if we stayed together? Both of them shocked me with having basically the same reason! Both had grown up in families where the mother was the only one to express love in the family. Both of their fathers would give an uh huh, or a me too, when told I love you by any other member of the family. Wow, that was how my family was too, my father never once said I love you to any of us, not until he was getting up there in years, anyway? I understood those two ladies perfectly, but i also told them that that WAS the reason i try to give more love to my relationships. Both sexes need to keep their romance alive, for the relationship to thrive. I believe that, wholeheartedly! So, yes i have gone overboard sometimes, tho it is not intentional.

    Oh, yes indeed, i feel i have to watch for what any lady is asking for, weather it be out right in plain sight, or just in their body language, or posture?! None of which, have I mastered in any way! LOL!!! Nope, with me, as I tell all of my potential steadies, that if you don't tell me what you want, you probably won't get it?!

    You are sooooo right on the conflicting desires part! That has been the bane of most all of my relationships with women! First, a women would say they want something, only to be disappointed when you give it to them. And once I had a women tell me she wanted me to do something, then told not to, but she still expected me to follow through with it. Really, who does that? That is how i feel about body language, if you don't tell me what you want, you will not get it from me!? I do not understand what most of those postures/jestures mean? What does how you set have to do with anything? I admit it, i am pretty dense when it comes to body language! Please lady's, just tell me what you want, o.k.? That right there, would solve a lot of disputes!

    Wow, i only intended to tell you that i think you are right on the money, and i almost wrote a book? LOL!

    Thank you, Dr. Leslie! You have been a huge help, once again! I hope you never have to leave this site for anything!!! We would be lost without you! No, i am not just saying that! Look at how much you have helped me, and lets not forget Roh, Sluggo, or any other on this page? You have helped a lot of people just since I started here! WOW!!!

    (Sorry Dr. Leslie! You know how i am, your one man cheering section? LOL!!!) Thank you so much for all you do here!

    Leslie Becker-Phelps, PhD replied to dfromspencer's response:
    You are quite welcome

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